Confused about what makes an animal a hybrid

[Michael OShay]

IDK if this is going to help or hinder, but in my mind the word hybrid is used in the chicken world to talk about crossing two specific breeds or types with predictable, reproducable results every time. If I put a Red rooster over a barred Rock hen, I'm going to get the same results no matter how often I do it, or what specific rooster and hen I use. Same for the red sex links, and the Cornish cross.

In my mind, this is what differentiates a hybrid from a plain old barnyard mix.

Where chickens are concerned, I think you have nailed the word "hybrid" exactly.

 

[Toddrick]

Okay, so a Production Red could be technically be considered a hybrid, but if I understand this correctly, they are not F1 hybrids--as a sex link would be--but probably bred for multiple generations with the Leghorn (or whatever else) crossed in, until they came up with a stable variety. And then they probably just move ahead with a normal breeding program, where best Production Red roosters mate best Production Red hens. If that's the case then I suppose the Production Red would be better described as its own breed, which I think is likely accurate. But, if hatcheries are mixing Leghorn regularly, then that really muddies the waters (and would still confuse me, because I'd think the offspring would be variable).

Is it fair to assume "hybrid" refers to an F1 offspring, and not just a breed that has some other lineage added at some point in its recent past?

 

[Michael OShay]

I suppose the Production Red would be better described as its own breed, which I think is likely accurate. But, if hatcheries are mixing Leghorn regularly, then that really muddies the waters (and would still confuse me, because I'd think the offspring would be variable).

These are muddy waters where Production Reds are concerned. Some breeders do consider them a breed, but they are definitely not recognized as a breed by the APA or any of the other poultry governing bodies.

 

[donrae]

To me, hybrid is the F1. I call red sex links a hybrid, as the results are predictable and stable. But mate those F1s together, and your results are all over the place, so to me at this point you simply have a mixed breed bird. Again, not any official defination, just how my brain works.

I think if a hatchery infuses straight Leghorn blood into a production red strain, the F1 birds aren't necessarily sold to the public, but used as breeding stock to breed back to more red birds to get back to a basic Red type. So you're not going to see the first generation or so...again, just how my brain works and how I'd do it.

I wouldn't call a production red a hybird, as you can breed a male to a female and get stable, predictable results with each parent being the same breed. To me they're a breed, just not an official breed with a standard. Just as many of us can look at a bird and say "That's an Easter egger", even though there's no standard and the EE appearance is more over the board than a production red. Being able to look at a bird and say it's a production red, and knowing if you mate it to another production red, in my mind makes it a breed. SOP folks might like me using the words type or strain instead of breed, but again I'm in my own little head and since there's no official defination of these terms, it works for me!

 

[Toddrick]

To me, hybrid is the F1. I call red sex links a hybrid, as the results are predictable and stable. But mate those F1s together, and your results are all over the place, so to me at this point you simply have a mixed breed bird. Again, not any official defination, just how my brain works.

I think if a hatchery infuses straight Leghorn blood into a production red strain, the F1 birds aren't necessarily sold to the public, but used as breeding stock to breed back to more red birds to get back to a basic Red type. So you're not going to see the first generation or so...again, just how my brain works and how I'd do it.

I wouldn't call a production red a hybird, as you can breed a male to a female and get stable, predictable results with each parent being the same breed. To me they're a breed, just not an official breed with a standard. Just as many of us can look at a bird and say "That's an Easter egger", even though there's no standard and the EE appearance is more over the board than a production red. Being able to look at a bird and say it's a production red, and knowing if you mate it to another production red, in my mind makes it a breed. SOP folks might like me using the words type or strain instead of breed, but again I'm in my own little head and since there's no official defination of these terms, it works for me!

Well said. I have arrived at the exact same conclusion. This is how I will choose to think of it until someone convinces me I should think otherwise. I just wish we could drop the "Production Red" label, since nearly all are the production variety today, and we already have the "Heritage" label to differentiate the SOP variety.

 

[draye]

So us this a hybrid:

From an Easter Egger rooster out of "Production Red" hen.

 

[Matthew3590]

I had a conversation with my genetics professor and the way the word "Hybrid" is being used in this thread is not a "wrong" word, it is just not the best word. The best word used for crossing two chickens is to just use the word cross. Now there is a very good way to use "Hybrid" and that is comparing laying chickens to broiler chickens. When you have a breed of chicken that is used for laying and also meat they are often considered hybrids. Not because of their pedigree but because of their usage.

Every chicken breed there is is just a cross of multiple breeds and chickens to obtain a desired look and use. If you started with red jungle fowl and somehow over a thousand generations of selection if the off spring eventually matched the standard of perfection for a Rhode Island Red the offspring would be considered a Rhode Island Red even though you didn't start with any.

 

[Michael OShay]

When you have a breed of chicken that is used for laying and also meat they are often considered hybrids.

If it's a hybrid, it's not a breed, it's a combination of breeds. Examples would be Black and Red Sex Links, Cornish cross, Amber Links, etc. These are specific genetic hybirds, not breeds, as they won't breed true (their specific characteristics will not be reliably reproduced in their offspring).

 

[Matthew3590]

If it's a hybrid, it's not a breed, it's a combination of breeds. Examples would be Black and Red Sex Links, Cornish cross, Amber Links, etc. These are specific genetic hybirds, not breeds, as they won't breed true (their specific characteristics will not be reliably reproduced in their offspring).

I said they were considered hybrids by usage not pedigree. Hybrid IE good at laying eggs and meat.

In any and all cases involving a chicken reproducing with another chicken it will never produce offspring true to the word "Hybrid". If it is a true hybrid it is a combination of species. Chicken and a robin. Horse and a donkey. Dog and a cat. Lion and a tiger. Dolphin and whale. Those would theoretically create hybrids.

 

[Michael OShay]

If it is a true hybrid it is a combination of species. Chicken and a robin. Horse and a donkey. Dog and a cat. Lion and a tiger. Dolphin and whale. Those would theoretically create hybrids.

A combination of species is only one valid example of a true hybrid. As I stated in my earlier post, a true hybrid can also be a combination of two breeds (ie. RIR X BR, Cornish X WR) or varieties as well. This is not simply my opinion; this is plainly stated in the dictionary definition for hybrid (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hybrid?s=t).