Confused on Silver gene in RIR mix

[angiebean]

I'm just starting into the world of chicken/poultry genetics and just having a hard time visualizing things and keeping things straight. Basically, I've been using the kippen chicken calculator and doing some research but a bit confused. Right now I'm trying to figure out what the offspring of a

Mottled Ancona Rooster (EE,coco, dbdb, pgpg, mlml, ChaCha, mhmh, didi, IgIg, cbcb, SS, bb, ChocChoc, ii blbl momo mottled, CC, LavLav)

With my RIR hen (E^Wh/E^Wh, CoCo, dbdb, pgpg, mlml, ChaCha, MhMh red, didi, lglg, cbcb, s-, b-, Choc-, ii, blbl, MoMo, CC, LavLav)

Would look like. The calculator says I get Black unicolr/self^E and below are what I get for male and female offspring.

Male: EE^Wh, coCO, dbdb, pgpg, mlml, ChaCha, mhMh, didi, IgIg, cbcb ii, blbl, LavLav
Female: EE^Wh, coCO, dbdb, pgpg, mlml, ChaCha, mhMh, didi, IgIg, cbcb ii, blbl, LavLav

The photos show black with green hackles/bits on the tail feather for the rooster and pure black on the hen, which makes sense to me with the E^Wh on both...but what about the Coco? I see the note that says no effect under birchen or extended black - but does that apply because of the E^Wh? Also then why does it say under phenotype that females might have black in the tail?

Mhmh would mean a dominate Mh, right? Which is a red enhancer and limited black restrictor. So how would this look?

Ss - this is where I'm getting confused on how silver will affect all of this. I feel like I can spot it on the examples I see on line and in my own chickens (of other breeds), but really having a hard time figuring out how this would come out here. And in the chicks? Would they be sex linked?

Also the Momo, I figure that just means hens and roos would carry one copy of the mottled gene

 

[2ndTink]

@rural mouse may be able to decipher that for you.

 

[rural mouse]

@rural mouse may be able to decipher that for you.

Without all the gene abbreviations as those mix me up.

 

[rural mouse]

I'm just starting into the world of chicken/poultry genetics and just having a hard time visualizing things and keeping things straight. Basically, I've been using the kippen chicken calculator and doing some research but a bit confused. Right now I'm trying to figure out what the offspring of a

Mottled Ancona Rooster (EE,coco, dbdb, pgpg, mlml, ChaCha, mhmh, didi, IgIg, cbcb, SS, bb, ChocChoc, ii blbl momo mottled, CC, LavLav)

With my RIR hen (E^Wh/E^Wh, CoCo, dbdb, pgpg, mlml, ChaCha, MhMh red, didi, lglg, cbcb, s-, b-, Choc-, ii, blbl, MoMo, CC, LavLav)

Would look like. The calculator says I get Black unicolr/self^E and below are what I get for male and female offspring.

Male: EE^Wh, coCO, dbdb, pgpg, mlml, ChaCha, mhMh, didi, IgIg, cbcb ii, blbl, LavLav
Female: EE^Wh, coCO, dbdb, pgpg, mlml, ChaCha, mhMh, didi, IgIg, cbcb ii, blbl, LavLav

The photos show black with green hackles/bits on the tail feather for the rooster and pure black on the hen, which makes sense to me with the E^Wh on both...but what about the Coco? I see the note that says no effect under birchen or extended black - but does that apply because of the E^Wh? Also then why does it say under phenotype that females might have black in the tail?

Mhmh would mean a dominate Mh, right? Which is a red enhancer and limited black restrictor. So how would this look?

Ss - this is where I'm getting confused on how silver will affect all of this. I feel like I can spot it on the examples I see on line and in my own chickens (of other breeds), but really having a hard time figuring out how this would come out here. And in the chicks? Would they be sex linked?

Also the Momo, I figure that just means hens and roos would carry one copy of the mottled gene

Mottled is recessive, so both parents have to have it to show (although I witnessed one bird bleed it through in greater quantities each adult moult while her twin didn't). Because mottling affects extended black (did you know white crested black polish is a mottled derivative?), anything else that affects extended black also hits the mottled.

Dominate white affects extended black. It will turn the black tail white on a RIR and is what is in red sex links.

Silver affects gold (red). So Silver will turn a RIR bird white, but not affect the black in the tail and wing tips.

Back to your birds. Black will cover the red, likely with leakage (like black copper marans). Silver will turn the red to white creating your birchen.

 

[angiebean]

Mottled is recessive, so both parents have to have it to show (although I witnessed one bird bleed it through in greater quantities each adult moult while her twin didn't). Because mottling affects extended black (did you know white crested black polish is a mottled derivative?), anything else that affects extended black also hits the mottled.

Dominate white affects extended black. It will turn the black tail white on a RIR and is what is in red sex links.

Silver affects gold (red). So Silver will turn a RIR bird white, but not affect the black in the tail and wing tips.

Back to your birds. Black will cover the red, likely with leakage (like black copper marans). Silver will turn the red to white creating your birchen.

Thank you!

Just for more clarification concerning sex link, if the offspring has Ss (dominate and a receive), will you be able to gender the chicks? Or does it need to be SS, i.e. two dominates

 

[2ndTink]

I'll take a stab at this one, and I might be wrong so feel free to wait on confirmation sexlinked -yes but... the chicks you won't be able to tell at hatch with the down, but as they grow their feathers out I think you can, but, by they you'll probably have some good guesses already.

The males will be Ss so where the gold or silver would be they will be a yellow straw color, but the pullets will be silver.

 

[angiebean]

I'll take a stab at this one, and I might be wrong so feel free to wait on confirmation sexlinked -yes but... the chicks you won't be able to tell at hatch with the down, but as they grow their feathers out I think you can, but, by they you'll probably have some good guesses already.

The males will be Ss so where the gold or silver would be they will be a yellow straw color, but the pullets will be silver.

Thanks! I never knew how complicated chicken genetics could be. Is there a certain feature to look for that makes chicks easier to tell apart? I.e. how RIR chicks are easy to sex once hatched

 

[2ndTink]

Thanks! I never knew how complicated chicken genetics could be. Is there a certain feature to look for that makes chicks easier to tell apart? I.e. how RIR chicks are easy to sex once hatched

Some breeds or crosses you can feather sex, or look at color / eye liner etc, others you look for subtle things and it's not a 100% method.

Cockerels - might have a little more upright posture, thicker legs, their combs might grow a little plumper or get a little color before the pullets.