Conservation Breeding Program Using Hatchery Chickens?

[springcreekchic]

I'm not sure if this is where this thread belongs, so feel free to let me know and I'll copy/paste this to where it needs to go.

I received my chicks from a couple of hatcheries (Murray McMurray, Welp, and Dunlap). I unintentionally bought mainly heritage breeds. Am I able to use these to start a conservation breeding program?

 

[popsicle]

I'm not sure if this is where this thread belongs, so feel free to let me know and I'll copy/paste this to where it needs to go.

I received my chicks from a couple of hatcheries (Murray McMurray, Welp, and Dunlap). I unintentionally bought mainly heritage breeds. Am I able to use these to start a conservation breeding program?

What do you want to conserve?

Do you want true-to-standard birds? Highly unlikely with hatchery birds.
Do you want a sustainable flock? Yes.
Do you want to have some interesting breeding projects? Sure.

How many breeds did you get?

 

[Fred's Hens]

To be straight forward? Not so much.

The BREEDS may be "heritage" but the birds aren't and that's the issue. What you'd be "preserving" are hatchery quality stock, which isn't exactly rare, if you know what I mean.

One of the problems with the buzz word "heritage" is that it was primarily coined by the American Livestock & Breed Conservatory as a small group of folks who wished to market meat primarily. Defining "heritage" is a bit sticky, but even with the definition used by the ABLC, they included something that most folks don't catch right away.

The birds must be bred to the APA Standard of Perfection for the breed. The term "heritage" has been so mis-used it has little value, on the face of it. Birds bred to Standard is a more accurate description, it seems to me. FWIW

The name of the group is now the The Livestock Conservancy. The Livestock Conservancy

 

[springcreekchic]

So, we joined the Livestock Conservancy, which seems to be interested in conserving breeds of animals that are no longer in production, or no longer kept by people. Birds like the Sebrights and Orpingtons and Yokohamas, that sort of thing. My daughter posted on my board, so I will see if I can answer both her questions and intent and your questions. I appreciate the responses greatly!

First and foremost, I am not a breeder. I have never bred anything. My daughter, however, is an extreme enthusiast of ornithology. Her deep interest is why we agreed to chickens in the first place. I think she wants to breed for conservation, to preserve certain strains. I am not sure how to term breeds of chickens, as most of what I have read, including the Storey books, claim that there are only a handful of "breeds" - the brown egg layers and the white egg layers. So I image the response should be "oh Dear". I have a lot to learn if she wants to start breeding for conservation.

She cannot show in the Elko area without joining 4-H, something I am reluctant to do because of the meeting lengths and required activity schedules. I already have one kid in High School sports and it feels like one more thing would break our schedules. So, backyard breeding would be her 'activity", and thus, no show, no show hens.

So back to the question:

No on the Showing part. The Livestock Conservancy offers a card grading system for judging breeding stock. My daughter might want to do this? So this would be hatchery stock, if I am understanding the moderators' post. So what is the deal with the hatchery stock? Is it inferior for preserving the breed, or are there real issues with it in terms of sustainability of the breed? Looking forward into the future, not all birds are quality enough to show, so now I am unsure what is the purpose of preserving - non-show? - birds? Lots of cunfusildness here.

So to breed to the APA or the ABA Standard of Perfection - this is for show quality - not the birds your keep and eat? Are the birds that you "keep and eat" endangered, and is this where the Livestock Conservancy comes in?

So, our purpose is to have a small flock in the backyard for eggs and enjoyment and my daughter. Evidently her interests are running toward breeding. No surprise there. Conservancy breeding is conserving what? Food/egg production, or characteristics to ensure genetic diversity should a population collapse happen? So cold hardiness, in our case, egg production, broodiness, foraging ability - all the things that would ensure that the birds would live and thrive and their "breed" - "type" - is ensured for future generations?

Is this a move on her part to preserve her beloved rooster chicks???? not ruling that out.

Now the questions for me are piling up!

Where would I even begin???

Oh my goodness. Any advice to point me in the right direction would be much appreciated. My little project might be growing into something way larger than I had intended.

Thanks to all for your responses!

 

[springcreekchic]

Buff Orpingtons, Barred Rocks, Silver Laced Wyandottes, Speckled Sussex from Murray McMurray. (brown egg layers)
Partridge Cochins, Silver Laced Cochins, and Rhoad Island Red Bantams from Welp Hatchery.
Aracaunas from Welp.
Sebright Bantams from Welp
Silkies from Dunlap
Brahma Bantams, Blue Laced Red Wyandotte Bantams, Japanese Black Tailed Bantams, and several mystery Bantams.

I am a huge Bantam fan ( we now 19)
We have 4 cochin (small but not bantam size)
29 normal size.

52 birds in all, but two different flocks. Mom's flock of Bantams and Daughters flock of egg layers.

 

[Fred's Hens]

I breed to the Standard, as do many, many breeders and we don't show. Some of my students, customers and friends DO show. Showing is a method by which you can have your efforts judged and have peer review. It helps you to judge objectively how you're doing and see what others are doing. Trophies and ribbon chasing is entirely up to you. I've no personal interest.

How do you start? How does she start? Sure, go to a major show where the breed she is interested in will be exhibited. She'd see what a quality, bred to Standard bird looks like, many of them, up close and personal. She'd also meet, perhaps, with the breeders who may be there to answer her questions.

There are a good number of breeders, top breeders, here on BYC. You'll find they are overwhelmingly willing to help a young person get started. I relish it, quite honestly.

The average breeder or interested beginner should narrow their interest to just one, at the most, two breeds. The wisdom of that cannot be exaggerated.

 

[springcreekchic]

Thank you so very much! I will direct her to the breeding section. I foresee a LOT of questions ahead of her. Ahead of us.:/

 

[MelissaZeno]

Is it ok to breed from a backyard mixed flock? How would you manage more than one breeding program? Is it necessary to seperate the males from females? What if you only have one male?

 

[MeepBeep]

Is it ok to breed from a backyard mixed flock? How would you manage more than one breeding program? Is it necessary to seperate the males from females?  What if you only have one male? 

Yes, hens should be isolated from roos if you want seperate breeding programs, eggs should not be collected for about 5 weeks to make sure she the hen doesn't have any viable sperm left in storage from another roo...

Roos should be introduced periodically after that, no need to keep them penned together as he will over mate her, a one day roo visit is good for weeks worth of fertile eggs, but you should probably allow more frequent visits just to make sure...

If you want a viable breeding program you need more then one roo, as one roo would result in all offspring being related with little genetic diversity... Line breeding (inbreeding) like this is good to pull out traits you want but it can also backfire and create genetic defects and bad genes if done too often... A successful breeding program requires genetic diversity and this either requires DNA testing or getting your stock from trusted breeders that have heritage paperwork showing the birds genetic origins...

If you really want to breed and do good beyond just creating the same old generic hatchery stock, you need to find birds with proven heritage and recorded/logged blood lines, this in many cases requires a huge investment and A LOT of paperwork to import from their origin countries if possible...

Good luck, you can still breed and have fun, but if conservation of a breed is the goal you need to take it very serious or else you are just going to be another 'hatchery grade' bird breeder...

 

[MelissaZeno]

Thank you I have never done any breeding with chickens. This is my first flock. Do you know if when you order fertilized eggs are they collected from the same hen or different hens?