Consolidated Kansas

[checoukan]

danz

sorry to hear you are having trouble. Sounds to me like you have a bacteria

in your brooder or hatcher. This can be a serious problem if you don't stop and clean and disefect your equipment. I use tek-trol on my incubator, hatcher and brooder. I even spray my eggs going into the incubator with it. Keeps thing bug free,

and you won't lose your babies at 3 to 5 days old.

 

[Candace69]

OK, I hadn't thought I'd be joining, and Teresa, I only came in originally cause you said you posted pics not to look at what you are saying.... I just wanted to see the pics.

I am not upset, and like I said before, I will and do help anyone raise up their pups, I want them to be successful, but they are your pups and it is your choice how to raise them up. So to help clarify what I have been saying, I joined.

I have never said to not handle LGD pups, only that the most crucial time is to 6 months, then at 6 to 12 months, then to 18 months. All handling must been done with the end result of wanting an LGD or pet or anything else, you always have to have a mind to the end result.

I know there are as many opinions as to how to raise an a Pyr. I have had my pyrs and this line 15 to 18 years. I have successfully raised numerous pyrs to LGD; and that is what I base my opinions on; they are my opinions, my LGDs have had cougars, packs in excess of 18 dogs, coyotes, bald eagles, hawks, possum, skunks, bobcats, and 2 legged predators come in, etc , you name it, they have handled it.

Now, I have a belief that there are 3 ways you can raise them,
1. as a pet, that is the easiest way
2. as what I call, "farm dog" where they are a pet, will guard your stock, but mainly stay at home and guard them out of courtesy
3. as an LGD
I will post in here what I do and how I handle them.
I do know that if you put a pyr out with stock in a pasture and they beat you home, they are not an LGD.
I do know that if you put them with stock and they roam, they are not an LGD.
If you go in the house and the dog sits on your porch and coyotes jump in with your stock or into your coup, you have a pet, NOT an LGD.

An LGD that is bonded correctly; pyr or any other breed, will not roam. If they are miles away, how do they know if there is anything after the stock?
I raise mine to be LGDs, I have raised the occasionally "farm dog" but most as LGDs.
I do not believe in over stimulating them to bring handled, I do not believe in roping a dog to get a handle on them. I do believe in having a working partner, a working relationship built out od love & repesct. I am not "momma" I am a working partner with these dogs, I love them dearly; I value them for their abilities, but those abilities that are there as pups can be lost.
I will post here Theresa what I sent in my last email:

I won’t rope any dog, to do that, to me, is stupid to have a dog you can’t touch. So I work to handle them enough that they have an attachment to me, and a respect for me, but don’t over ride what I want them to do. Yes, the obedience falls into place, but all I want them to know is
1. Their name
2. To come when I call (as long as there is no danger, as I do allow them to think freely)
3. Walk nicely on a lead
4. ...and yes, when I say NO, that is the end of it.
I don’t do all the leash, healing, stay, down, all that obedience training, LGDs don’t need that, they just need the – what I call, basics.
In the end, what I want to have with any of my LGDs, and so far the ones I have raised have over the years, turned consistently into this: (I can do this to any of my pyrs)

One that when I need to put a leash on will walk nicely, that I can take them to the vet, they will let themselves be examined, (have cockle burrs pulled out of belly hair, or from under their arms) they will load in the car, they will sit/stop/come when I want them so I can leash them and I won’t/don’t chase or rope them, stays HOME, they come up for loves and snuggles....BUT, will leave me in an instant to guard the stock, will protect everything on the yard, up to and including us, but not us to the detriment of the stock (ie staying on the porch and not at the barn), will stay with the stock even if I haul them to the pasture and won’t run home to be with me over the stock. That to me, is the ideal LGD. They will guard everything but still love on and respect you.


A good example of this balance was earlier this summer I walked down to the creek, it's about 1/4-1/2 mile from the house. 3 pyrs joined me, 1/3 the way there one laid down, 2/3 the way there the next laid down, the last one walked with me to the creek. on the way back, each pyr joined my walk as we continued, when I got home all 3 pyrs went to the barn (after a hug or pat of course) nd I went to the house, none wanted to go to the house, that was not thier job. None of my pyrs have collars or leash. I know what and why they did this; they wanted to watch over me, but also the stock and home, so they had a relay built where the alert could be sent if need for back up. if I needed it, or if it was needed at the barn.

This is one example of what I shoot foot, and breed for in my LGDs, that they have a mind, think, and act according to what is needed at the time, and I am truly blessed and thrilled every time I see them work. But it took the basis that was set, the expectations I put on them as pups, to get them to where they were.

Blessings and Best of luck to you all. (I see there is a rabbit section so I will probably be back in!)
Candace Harding
Bar 6 Diamond Ranch
bar6diamondranch.com
Great Pyrs as LGDs; ABCA Border Collies, AKC Dalmatians
Purebred Nubian Dairy and Colored Angora Goats
Shetland and Finn Cross Fiber Sheep
And, yes, lots of Chickens and Ducks and Geese and Guineas! :L

"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be. Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be, but performance indicates what the animal actually is." -Author Unknown

 

[Candace69]

Quote:
Honestly, that's the way I feel too, and why I help people irregardless of if they have a pup from me.
And I agree about the pups too, that is why I have what I do, I want them moms to be ABLE to take the time to have pups without the stress of worrying abut the stock being guarded. My moms are excellent LGDs, but they know and trust the other 8 LGDs I have, so they can take care of their pups. Nothing drives me nuts more than for someone to not realize that an LGD that is expected to raise a litter of pups and guard, can't do it, or if she tries, something either her or the pups suffer......And when something gets by her, they get mad and or get rid of her!
Blessings,
Candace

I don't know if this works, but I raise my pups around everything, this is just one pic I have of them with some baby ducks, but I have hundreds of pics of them with anything and everything, I don't believe in isolating them from what they need to be around. They have to learn to be nice.

You can see the tail feather of one of my roosters:

 

[checoukan]

Quote:

 

[chicken danz]

Candace I agree with you. Maybe there was some lack of understanding here. I hope you don't feel I was stepping on your toes. I love my pyrs and only want the best for the breed. I know some breeders that insist on no human contact, dogs born in a pasture, never having any human interaction and they become mean and aggressive to humans as well as any other "predator." No way to vet them or treat them if they need it. I have the greatest respect for GPs and think they do a phenomenal job protecting.
I can't imagine being without my dogs. They literally save me thousands every year. I only want the highest respect for the breed. I feel a dog bred with the right disposition, good hips and natural instincts is what counts the most.
Checoukan, no bacteria or the other chicks I have in the bin would be affected as well. I've kept these in the house in a large bin as opposed to being in my brooder house just so I can monitor them closely. I keep bedding in there clean and free of mold. Is there something the hen could be passing down to them? These are black silkies.

 

[chicken danz]

Just a quick pic I'd posted months ago of some of my last litter with some chickens.

 

[Candace69]

No offense, I just felt there was some misunderstanding, and the only way to over come miscommunications is by talking.
I don't let people get to me, life is to short, live and love each day.
So, no, you won't offend me, I can disagree, and agree to disagree, without harming a friendship, as long as the other person has the same mindset.
That's why I tell Teresa, she can raise them how she wants, as they ARE her pups, but I will help her all I can; to raise them to what she wants. They are extremely hard to NOT love on, I understand that so much and you can love on them, but TO A POINT.
For the most part, as I haven't read everything you said, but what you have said is extremely similar to what I say. Like what you said about the food aggression, I say the same thing, it's more posturing and let them work it out.

The mom to Teresa's pups did an awesome job raising them up, a funny story, she had them out with the goats in one of the huts. I left them, figured about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks I'd move them to the barn so I could start offering them food and the goats couldn't get it. Before I had a chance to, she moved them, she wanted me to feed them, she had decided it was time. They were like 2 weeks and 5 or 6 days....I came out ot her running by the gate with a pup danging out of her mouth, she woofed at me, as she was having to go the long way, as the gates are all closed and they have their own openings. She woofed over the pup in her mouth and asked me to open the gate, then followed me back as I got the last 3. She wanted to make sure I got all the last of them, she had the first 5 already moved... It was funny 'casue her woof was like "ABOUT TIME YOU GOT HERE!"

Candace

 

[checoukan]

Love those GP's!

 

[chicken danz]

checoukan, I got to thinking. I bought shavings from a different source than I have been. Do you suppose those could have anything to do with the silkies dying? I just don't understand why it is just the silkies. Can the hen pass on some bacteria through the egg? I guess I feel I have to know if this will keep occurring because otherwise I will have to get different stock.
Candace, I have a funny story too. I was giving my female some goat milk supplement to help her raise those 10 pups. The vet said to give her lots of fat and carbohydrates. Anyway she loves that milk and of course gobbled it down. At about 3 weeks she got up and of course the pups followed her out, stood over the food bowl and just let them have at it. (pups were feet first of course but it didn't take them long to get a taste and love it.) Same thing I think,"These kids are wearing me down, you feed them this time. As time went on she let them eat more and more of my offerings and less nursing, but she was still there caring for them. Love that dog!
I forgot who asked when I'd know for sure if my dog is pregnant. These big dogs carry their litter up high. The pups gain 75% of their weight in the last 3 weeks of gestation. So that is when she will be showing the obvious signs. I think I will be able to tell before Christmas if she is having pups. Since she has whelped before I think her nipples will fill out sooner this time. Candace might have some insight on this as well since she has had more GP litters than I.

 

[Hawkeye95]

Candance--

cute pics and what a great story of your momma moving the pups!

Well, I don't know that I really want to- but I'm going to try to get that last side of wire up today. Only one side left. Going to go pick up the dog panels this evening. They are having an exclusive 20% off sale on EVERYthing in the store between 6-8pm. I'm soooo excited that it will be DONE. Not how I wanted my run to be, but at least it will work for this winter and no more work for now.

Not only that, but several people heard from the Union that Boeing is indeed closing the Wichita plant. So, it looks like unless we can figure out a move to another aerospace company, or something else, we'll be moving soon. I'm super sad, because I just built my coop and I won't even get to really use it.

We'll see how things play out, but I have a bad feeling about all of this. Anyway, now my plan is to take the dog panels down with me when we move. I'll make the coop "negotiable" with the house and if they don't want it, I'm chopping off the legs and dragging it with me! Not sure how that is going to work out, but I guess it's a wait and see.

We just got home from church, (me and the kids-- my DH is in Dallas, TX right now). After I warm up and convince myself to be brave enough to get soaked in the water and get muddy, I'm headed out. Our property is a mucky mess from all the rain. Hoping it's mostly dry under that coop.

BTW- Ivy, wondered where you were! Glad to see you back!

Danz, take it easy on yourself. I hope your post Op goes well. Hope you aren't trying to lift heavy things! No idea about the black silkie chicks, I've never heard anything about it, but what do I know!! I have soooo much more to learn! Perhaps there is some kind of fatal gene like you said. I doesn't sound far fetched, and there is obviously something going on. Maybe Chooks will know something???