Contagion?

[luckitri]

Hi all. This a.m. I noticed a bloody baby poop. It was runny in a water colored mucous solution.

So I came on here and started searching and got a bit educated.

My feed store opened and I went down and got Sulmet and Wazine17. I would have preferred the raw goat or cow's milk that I saw on someone's post on here but was clueless as to where to get it.

I have a zillion questions.

Some of these babies are only 2 weeks old and the Sulmet says to start treating at 4 weeks. Do I have any other options? Will the treatment cause these babies to die?

We are assuming Coccidia (?) infection. The feed store guy said it might be worms also and so sold me the Wazine 17. He says to do the Sulmet for 2 days and if it doesn't clear up to do the Wazine17.

The Wazine17 bottle says that the treatment should be 1 day or less. Once again they should be 4 weeks old for treatment and they are not all that age yet. The bottle also says to not let them have any water all night and then in the morning give them the medicated water. Can babies go all night without any water? Mine screech if food or water runs out during the night.

Now having searched on this site for more information I found a link posted by shelleyb1969 (thank you shelley) that says something called necrotic enteritis can also cause the bloody diarhea. This site says nothing about the cocci so I am getting the idea that no site has everything on there. Are there even more possibilities for cause of bloody loose stools? And do I have to buy Rx for everything until I figure it out?

Meanwhile do I have to quarantine my free-range girls in their pen until I figure out what it is and how safe it is? Should I give them the Sulmet in their water just to be safe? And then the de-wormer Wazine17 also? (My grown girls like to go to where the baby pen was the day before and try to find leftover start and grow pellets.)

My best dog ever, who thinks chicken poop is caviar - can she catch any of these things? Or if by chance I am sloppy can I catch any of them?

Is their any website for reference that does talk about potential contagion to other animals and humans?

Timely because I was just wondering about melamine in their food and would that cause the bloody loose stools?

By the way, I did find a semi-formed stool that was bloody as well. (I moved them to a clean container till it was warm enough to take them outside.) At this point I think it is just one baby but I can't figure out which one. I have not found enough bloody stools to even think it is more - yet.

Thanks in advance to all who read my verbose posts and thanks for helping me.

 

[speckledhen]

A two week old chick is not going to have worms. My advice is to NEVER listen to feedstore personnel. They are usually clueless. Are they on ground or in a brooder? Are they on medicated chick starter? A better treatment for cocci in youngsters is Corid, which is concentrated Amprolium. It's not an antibiotic, so shouldnt mess with their little digestive tracts. I just wonder how chicks are getting cocci if they aren't even on dirt yet. It's quite a puzzler.

 

[luckitri]

Well they ARE on dirt during the day as I am in the greater Phoenix area and it is warm enough. At night I bring them in and keep them in a homemade brooder. There is a light to keep them warm but it is a small space and they poop it up quickly. I have several of these plastic containers so this a.m. I put them in a clean one while I was researching the cocci and it was still too cool to put them out. However, in the last few days they have frustrated me with how they manage to distribute an entire day of feed out of the feeder and throughout the container and contaminate it by pooping on it. Also they are being a mess with the water. One night I brought in their outside water container and put it in their nightime brooder. Surprisingly it quieted them down and kept them still all night but it takes up so much space that I don't like doing it.

Their pen has sun and shade and I notice that mostly they try to stay in the shade. Right now we are supposedly at 75 degrees but they still try to rest in the cool shady part of their pen even if it is only 2 inches. My grown free-range hens(2) and the wild birds do come to feed on any leftover start and grow crumble they can find when I move the pen. My hens and my dog used to chase off the wild birds but there were a couple of days this week that they did not and then for the next couple of days the wild birds did not come - I don't know why.

At first they would cry when their feet started to get cold but we have had such unseasonably warm weather that I have had to bring them in due to darkness, not temperature. That changed last night however and we are due for some rainy days starting Wednesday. I am outside alot, or in and out alot and so I think that I am right on top of their situation and not getting them chilled. It is going to be tough keeping them cooped up on those rainy days and I am not looking forward to it. They love to try to fly and already are attempting dust baths in the grass.

After the rain I will have to have a light in their outside pen for warmth most likely.

Ooops! Yes they are on the medicated Start and Grow. Today I found out it is from "Kelly's." The local feed stores repackage all feed and put their own name on it.

They are so cute. They have gotten used to the routine and so they will actually hop onto my hand when I pick them up to put them in their outside pen.

 

[Enchanted Sunrise Farms]

Here are my thoughts . . . i have read that baby chicks need to be inside under a heat lamp for at least the first four weeks. First week at 95 degrees, next week 90, next week 85, next week 80. After they are fully feathered they can go outside if the weather is nice. If i'm hatching babies in the cold months i keep them inside until Spring, maybe taking them out for short day trips if the weather is nice, after they are at least four weeks old.

You mention wild birds in the area, and the problem is, wild birds carry a lot of disease like mites, lice, worms, or worse. Exposing young chicks with fragile immune systems to these dangers is probably not the best idea.

On your feed mess problem, you can buy feeders with plastic inserts that prevent your chicks from billing out the food. Or maybe set the feeder up on something to elevate it to make it difficult for them to bill or kick the food out?

Also, you don't want any laying hens eating up spilled medicated chick feed. The medication will get into the eggs. It can be harmful for people to eat eggs containing medication if they are allergic to that medication. But also, not good for anyone to ingest any unnecessary medication.

On the bloody poop issue, if i were you, i would take a sample to an avian vet. That is probably the best way to get a definitive answer. i wouldn't follow the advice of a feed store owner (who probably has a vested interest in selling product). You never want to just willy nilly medicate any animal or person without knowing exactly what the problem is and then picking (or having a professional prescribe) the best medicine.

On the contagion factor, MOST diseases and pests are species specific. Such as, the lice that infest a chicken is not the same as the lice your kid might get on their scalp. So wouldn't worry too much about it. Sorry i don't have a website to refer you to on the contagion factor. i tend to just ask my vet when an individual issue comes up.

i hope i have helped a bit. Sounds like you are very trying to do the very best for your babies. Do trot a fecal sample to an avian vet, though. Better to find out exactly what is wrong rather than treating them with an array of unnecessary meds.

 

[Poohbear]

What speckledhen said would be best. Sulmet will work but I use Corid in their water as a preventative too. With baby chicks the secret is CLEAN, WATER, CLEAN PEN and CLEAN FEEDERS!

 

[speckledhen]

To clarify the medicated feed issue, if the starter just contains Amprolium, it wont hurt the hens to eat it. That is not an antibiotic with egg residues. It's merely a thiamine blocker so the cocci oocysts are not fed by that B vitamin.

 

[Enchanted Sunrise Farms]

Quote:
Well hmmm, i was quoting a feed store lady on that one. And after saying not to trust what feed store people tell you, i go ahead and quote one. My bad.

 

[luckitri]

Thanks for the responses!

There is so much to research and I can't remember where I have been!

One site said that Sulmet causes a deficiency but of what and how to supplement - don't know. I did not know where to get raw goats milk so I went to the feed store and got the Sulmet.

Bye the bye, the news said our temp was 75 but it was actually mid to high 80's.

I see that one chick now has orange poop that is not runny but not fully formed yet either. The others still seem to be unaffected. . . .but I don't know which chick it is.

Avian vet sounds good but I just lost 2/3 my monthly income so doubt it can happen.

How the oocysts live is another thing I need to learn. Apparently indefinately? The cold shuts them down but does not kill them? So if these chicks get past this, when I get more chicks I will just have to know it is in the soil and medicate them accordingly?

From what I read this intestinal irritation can leave them open to other infections including salmonella which would then get in the eggs? So maybe I should get the raw milk anyways.

I am wondering if my grown hen lays only sporadically because she has this. I never noticed her having problems in the poo department but my reading lead me to understand it cuts down on "thriftiness" meaning the birds don't grow as well and lay less often.

I put towels in the bottom of their "brooder" last night and changed them to a fresh "brooder" in the middle of the night. I don't do litter and really did not want to get involved with that. Will have to wash and dry towels in the sun and then maybe run them through the machine on hot with bleach for tonight. I thought it would at least cut down on the moisture problem. I also took their feed and water out after midnight and they did OK with that - no crying.

My feed store guy is young and motivated. He also works on a farm. He knows alot and I will ask him how he learned and he says "On-line". He has that young mind that remembers everything it sees. He does not know everything and will readily admit it but he is on his way to becoming an authority.

Now I will have to google Kelley's feed and see what medications they have in their start and grow.

 

[speckledhen]

Quote:
Well hmmm, i was quoting a feed store lady on that one. And after saying not to trust what feed store people tell you, i go ahead and quote one. My bad.

LOL, just once I'd love to be able to trust what one of those people tells me, but the honest truth is I know lots more than they do...and I bet most of you BYCers do, too.

 

[luckitri]

Hiya! I have so much to learn! Don't know what the shelf-life is on this stuff and would prefer to learn natural alternatives. There is no more discolored poo so I have to assume that the Sulmet worked and the problem is solved. So I see no reason to administer the wormer and I am sure it was just one chick anyway. They are all scruffy looking at this point as they are shedding the fluff and getting the pin feathers. They drank double their usual amount of water today - but I suppose there is no "usual" as they grow every day.