Controversial Discussions

[Farmer Mike S]

If you think current "country life" without technology would allow "sustainable life" you're either not thinking your argument through, or you're kidding yourself. "Oh, but we can raise our food." Cool -- where are you getting the seeds? How are you planting them? How are you irrigating them? How are you harvesting them? Oh, and livestock -- what will you use to keep them contained? Are you going to start mining and refining metals to make your own nails for your fences? How will you begin that task -- digging with rocks?


We are interdependent at this stage of the game. As a "city person", it gets rather tiresome to keep seeing all these claims about "country people are better". You're not. I'm not. We're all equal. I can do things you can't, and vice versa. Together, we make life livable.


P.S. I wonder how a thread like "The funniest thing a country person ever said to you" would go over here. Being a "city person" member who answers a lot of questions for "country people" on this forum, I have a lot of material. But I am secure enough with myself not to feel the need to put down other people for things they don't know.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/161061/funniest-things-a-city-slicker-has-ever-said-to-you

Well most plants originate in nature and most plants have seeds so I can find a plant from nature, get seeds, and grow from there. I can even get it from a fellow farm, even though that may not count as off the grid. I get seeds out of what I grow in my garden all the time and replant them. As far as planting goes, I till up some good compost which comes from dead plant matter in a pile, and I can till by hand. Then I place the seeds in the ground. For irrigation if needed, I can use a well or rain barrel. For fencing, it I wanted to be truely self reliant, I can cut up trees and make a fence out of them by putting posts in the ground and I can cut out grooves for rails

 

[Rosa moschata]

Originally Posted by Farmer Mike S


Like I said earlier, what concerns me about society is that you have people that don't know how to work a lawn mower, can't identify 10 plants, etc. I see more and more of this as time goes on.

The educational system I can go on a rant about all day. I already mentioned earlier how they're taking people out of the trades, so I won't go off on that. I find most of what I do learn in school useless because we are simply taught something and tested on it; it's never really applied to real life. I can memorize a math problem and write it on a test, but how's that gonna help me if I don't really know what it does?



I could also go on a rant about how science education in some areas is being crippled by people who "don't like" certain topics because they conflict with their personal beliefs, and those areas tend to be more rural than urban. It concerns me that in my country, so many people come out of school with science education edited into Swiss cheese, and in the process being unable to understand the importance of evidence-based conclusions bearing more weight than someone else's opinion based upon "because I said so." As a result, it becomes much easier to convince people to believe other lies.

 

[Rosa moschata]

Well most plants originate in nature and most plants have seeds so I can find a plant from nature, get seeds, and grow from there. I can even get it from a fellow farm, even though that may not count as off the grid. I get seeds out of what I grow in my garden all the time and replant them. As far as planting goes, I till up some good compost which comes from dead plant matter in a pile, and I can till by hand. Then I place the seeds in the ground. For irrigation if needed, I can use a well or rain barrel. For fencing, it I wanted to be truely self reliant, I can cut up trees and make a fence out of them by putting posts in the ground and I can cut out grooves for rails

Most plants raised for food today have been selectively bred, and as such do NOT originate in nature. Many universities have been at the forefront of plant breeding, as well as private corporations. My point is how you would BEGIN without anything from "city people" today. You wouldn't have your gardening tools. You wouldn't have hoses, or running water, or refrigeration. If you live where winters are severe, you'll have to concern yourself with food storage -- again, without the technology of canning or other "city people" derived methods of preservation. "Cut up trees" -- with what? Do you know how to make a saw from scratch? How will you dig holes for the posts without a shovel made in a city somewhere?

 

[Farmer Mike S]

I'm not sure about what course or school you're doing/in, but I did the IB Diploma and this most certainly involved a great deal of critical thinking. An emphasis was actually placed on teaching students how to think, and how to stay open-minded and consider all evidence for a particular argument. Of course, the nature of some subjects such as maths or physics, or even geography, meant that we needed to memorise lots of facts. But research into these facts and discussion on new or alternative theories was also an important part of the syllabus.

Needless to say, the most "outside the classroom" subject offered by my school was Dance, and only two or three people took that. We are a snotty bunch by some standards, but I value my education! I think it's shown me a lot about the world I wouldn't know otherwise, had I been doing self-directed learning. (there was a colossal amount of material involved, I'd never have found it all myself, even if I had the time.)

Your class sounds great, those things are very important to learn too! There are technical colleges like Tafe here, and we have an agricultural high school in the city (they learn about crops and animals and the economics of farming, and do things like raise cows for the Show ).

Good luck with your studies and your goals.

That's very good that you teach your class that way. I believe you said you are in Australia so curriculum may be different there, but I know a lot of things in the American system are based off standardization.

And btw, you may think your arguments are useless, but you really do point out things that I notice and do get me thinking a bit. You may not completely change my mind, but you do have good points that get me thinking and do have an influence

 

[Fierlin1182]

That's very good that you teach your class that way. I believe you said you are in Australia so curriculum may be different there, but I know a lot of things in the American system are based off standardization.

And btw, you may think your arguments are useless, but you really do point out things that I notice and do get me thinking a bit. You may not completely change my mind, but you do have good points that get me thinking and do have an influence

Yep, I am in Australia. I know we have many differences from America, so at times I'm not in the right place to comment or make judgements on certain issues!
IB is "International Baccalaureate". I believe it's based in the UK, and is taught the world over, including in the US. I think I'm very privileged in having had the opportunity to study for this diploma. My experience at school and how much I liked it changed completely, practically overnight, from when I was in year 10 (doing the standard Australian curriculum) to when I was in year 11 (IB).

 

[Farmer Mike S]

Most plants raised for food today have been selectively bred, and as such do NOT originate in nature. Many universities have been at the forefront of plant breeding, as well as private corporations. My point is how you would BEGIN without anything from "city people" today. You wouldn't have your gardening tools. You wouldn't have hoses, or running water, or refrigeration. If you live where winters are severe, you'll have to concern yourself with food storage -- again, without the technology of canning or other "city people" derived methods of preservation. "Cut up trees" -- with what? Do you know how to make a saw from scratch? How will you dig holes for the posts without a shovel made in a city somewhere?

I'm not going to get into too much depth because it's already past my bed time, but I believe we can do this kind of deal in a small community barter system. I feel like most the corporation bred plants you mention are bred this way for "special" qualities. Without this, I would have a tomato, but probably just not nearly as good of one. But you are definitely right , one way or another I would most likely be relying on city life in some way. I also read what you said about science and I agree. I always like to hear other theories even if they go against what I believe. It kind of goes back to me liking to explore rather than going with what I'm taught

 

[Fierlin1182]

And btw, you may think your arguments are useless, but you really do point out things that I notice and do get me thinking a bit. You may not completely change my mind, but you do have good points that get me thinking and do have an influence

And thank you very much for that, I take it as a great compliment. I'm glad to see that I've managed to accomplish something with my at-times nonsensical ramblings.

 

[Rosa moschata]

And thank you very much for that, I take it as a great compliment. I'm glad to see that I've managed to accomplish something with my at-times nonsensical ramblings.

I think you meant to quote someone else...I didn't type that.

 

[Fierlin1182]

Rats, you're right... I wonder what happened there?! Oh well, I'll edit the bit in the quote box.

 

[Fierlin1182]

And I'm finally done with my replies! With that, I shall be off, much to the delight of the masses (I also feel kinda bad being here during my tute but this is the last post.)