Coop and Run

[kuropas]

I need to make a coop and run for approximately 26 laying hens and for 12 meat birds (cornish rocks).

That being said, I assume about a 12' x 12' x 8' coop to house them will be useful, however, how much run space do you all recommend that be attached to the coop?

Also, any advice on making the coop area winter resilient? I can build pretty much whatever is needed, the question is just how big and how much run is "REALLY" needed to keep 26 regular hens happy. The meat birds will be culled at 9-10 weeks.

Do you heat it? Do you insulate it? Do you install an AC line to a panel in the coop? I would really like to hear some recommendations.

Also, any links to large coops / runs for this quantity of birds would be truly helpful.

 

[PirateGirl]

Here is a link to the large coop section on BYC:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/category/large-coops.20/

Hopefully you can find some inspiration there. I have never raised meat birds, and I know their needs are a bit different, so I will leave that to someone else.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Your coop sounds about right. As far as heating or cooling it, what's your climate like? As a general rule you don't need to add "extras" however if you're in an extreme climate (the desert or frozen north) that might not be the case.

As far as the run, for 26 hens (assuming the minimal 10 sq ft per bird) you'd be looking at 260 sq ft. I'd highly recommend making it much bigger than minimum if you have space and budget for it, especially if they will be confined most/all of the time.

 

[50-45-1]

If you could update your profile so we know where in the world you are located it will help us give you more accurate advice.
I have heard that a chicken coop should never be insulated as it harbors bugs and rodents. If you are a builder you may have an remedy for that.
They say a chicken can keep warm in very friged temperatures as long as there are no drafts. Breeds with a large straight comb tend to frost bite more so than breeds with rose or pea combs.
Oh, by the way, welcome to the backyard!
I just noticed you are a new member.

 

[Alaskan]

I need to make a coop and run for approximately 26 laying hens and for 12 meat birds (cornish rocks).

I would highly recommend making a tractor for the meat birds. You really want them by themselves. They need higher protein feed, and make more mess and more stink. A tractor will also help them stay a bit more active.

That being said, I assume about a 12' x 12' x 8' coop to house them will be useful, however, how much run space do you all recommend that be attached to the coop?

Depends on your climate.

Also, any advice on making the coop area winter resilient?

How cold do you get? How much snow?

Do you heat it? Do you insulate it? Do you install an AC line to a panel in the coop?

Again... depends on your climate.

 

[aart]

Welcome to BYC! @kuropas

You've gotten some great advice already,
and been asked some great questions that the answers to would really help.

Where in this world are you located?
Climate, and time of year, is almost always a factor.
Please add your general geographical location to your profile.
It's easy to do, (laptop version shown), then it's always there!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I agree, great suggestions and questions from some good people so far. You might try following the link in my signature, it might help your decision process. Not all of it will apply to you but a lot will, both in the coop and run.

I have not raised meaties myself but have noticed that many people that raise them together with layers the first time tend to raise them separately the second. Not that you can't raise them together, but well, just saying....

Don't think of your coop area in isolation from your run area. Think of them as your total space system. How you manage them and give them access to that run from the coop can be important in that thought process. One reason your climate is important is that the weather may take some of that decision-making away from you.

In general I find the more I crowd them the more behavioral problems I have to deal with, the harder I have to work, and the less flexibility I have in dealing with issues. This is not about pampering your chickens, it's about making your life easier. To me, having flexibility can greatly reduce your stress levels, don't underestimate the advantages.

I generally encourage people to think bigger rather than how many can I shoehorn into this tiny space. Still, be reasonable. If you can restrict yourself to 26 hens max and don't plan to do integrate replacements, in most climates you should be able to get away with an 8' x 12' coop, meaties housed separately. Also, most standard building materials come in 8' or 4' sections, you can often save cutting and waste, let alone money, by designing around that if you are buying all new materials. Depending some on your style of roof, the wider the span the more robust and expensive your roofing lumber needs to be. You might be better off building an 8' x 16' rather than a 12' x 12'.

I envision your run to be small enough that they will turn it into a barren waste pretty quickly so no real foraging opportunities, though some people turn their runs into compost piles which changes that around some. There are so many different ways you can do these things! Runs are generally less expensive to build than coops but are also more vulnerable to predators unless you do spend a lot of money on them. Not sure what you have planned. To me runs provide a more inexpensive space to help with behavioral issues but also they provide a place for chickens to poop that is not in the coop. The less they poop in the coop the less you have to manage that poop. But if run space is fairly small compared to the number of chickens so poop is concentrated out there you may have to manage poop in the run. Can be a trade-off, space to working harder managing poop.

Runs are typically more exposed to wet than coops. If the run stays wet it will stink, the microbes that turn the poop into compost become anaerobic, not aerobic and that is a problem. I look at drainage as a big issue in deciding where to put the run.

I can't tell you how big to make your run, too many factors involved. But for both coop and run people tend to complain a lot more if they are too small versus too large.

 

[kuropas]

Also, most standard building materials come in 8' or 4' sections, you can often save cutting and waste, let alone money, by designing around that if you are buying all new materials. Depending some on your style of roof, the wider the span the more robust and expensive your roofing lumber needs to be. You might be better off building an 8' x 16' rather than a 12' x 12'.

We were actually considering 8x16 or 8x12 due to the material consideration after I did the math. This is just for the coop building (it will be 8' x X' x 8' with probably a 4' ridge or 6')

We live on a Mountain in Avon CT, it is VERY cold here in winter. We are not "coastal" weather. We essentially have the same exact weather as we get in Bethel/Newry Maine (we have property there). I expect in Winter they will be "indoors" most of the time-- the laying hens, the meat birds will be butchered by July.

I envision your run to be small enough that they will turn it into a barren waste pretty quickly so no real foraging opportunities, though some people turn their runs into compost piles which changes that around some.

What I am referring to is allowing them to "free range" out into an area maybe 50' x 35' or even 50' x 50' (polygonal in reality but close) of grassy yard area. We live in the woods and have considerable property here. However, predators are a problem.

We have several fruit trees in this area near the coop that were going to be fenced in and avian netted at 8' height with a fence anyhow. We are considering a fence around a semi polygonal area more along the lines of 1800-3500 square feet. There are other considerations. The netting will be at a center height of 12'-16' to the outside edges above the area. They will be ranged during the day time when we are here (we work from home). Very similar to how orchards bird net with 50x50 avian nets (especially cherry farms in upstate NY) There will be hard fence in the back yard. Most likely a 1" x 1" or something decently solid. Might employ some poly tape to train the bears. (electric)

As for predators, we have issues with Black Bear. They are seen every couple days here once they come out of hibernation. We also seem to have a den of Great Lakes wolves nearby. (Used to have coyotes, but they have been displaced about 3 years ago by the wolves) Yes, they are wolves. Photos for anyone who is interested. PM me.

Very few raccoons at the moment, a few possums here and there, hawks, owls and eagles (golden?).

The long/short conclusion: we'd like to let em run around in a larged fenced area with aerial cover/protection, however, I'd like to make sure the coop is not too small in the event that winter dictates indoors only.

The that last question about AC was I can run power easily to this coop, however, do we need heat? Other than a water heater to prevent frozen water?

 

[kuropas]

[1.]I would highly recommend making a tractor for the meat birds. You really want them by themselves.

[2.] How cold do you get? How much snow?

Response to #1: I expect to butcher 12 meat birds by the 4th of July (approximate date) and I am not anticipating replacing them immediately. (This may change) Would you still separate them?

Response to #2: The town of Avon CT gets a decent amount of snow through Winter there can be an average of 4-10" inches sustained on the ground at any time. Where I live on this small mountain, we get about 25-35% more snow per snow fall and have about 8-15" inches at any given time snowfall remains. It is several degrees colder and we tend to have much more sustained cold wind than the lower downtown areas.

Where I live is very similar weather to where we ski in Maine. The big difference is the length of true Winter (degree days) and they sheer volume / frequency of snow fall.

I also added some further info below in response to Ridgerunner.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I'm sure you get temps well below zero F but you may find actual cold isn't that much of problem. A cold wind is. I took this photo when it was (+) 4 F. I give them the option to decide what they want to do and they decided to come out. However if a cold wind is blowing they will not be out in it. They really don't like a cold wind.

My chickens really hate waking up to a white world. They don't like change and do not venture outside for a few days when the world turns white overnight. But eventually some of mine will start to wonder around in it, especially if there is some grass or other fodder sticking up out of the snow. I took the photo below when the snow (about 1") fell during the morning when they were already out. The change was gradual enough they never got scared of it. Still, wind and snow will keep yours confined to the coop some, building it bigger than the minimum is a great idea. For what it is worth, these photos are from Arkansas.

My main laying/breeding flock was one rooster and between 6 to 8 hens, but during the season I often had over 50 chickens, mostly different sized chicks growing to butcher size. My main run was a 12' x 32' barren waste but I also had an area maybe 45' x 65' enclosed in electric netting. They had access to it 51 weeks out of the year. In spring I'd keep them locked in the main run for a week of so when green stuff started sprouting to give it a chance to get a head start. It would stay green all summer but they would selectively eat the stuff they liked and let the stuff they did not like grow. I had to mow it a few times each summer to clear the weeds and let the good stuff grow. With 26 hens in your climate I'd expect 26 hens to make it pretty barren, but time will tell. I had plum, mulberry, pear, and pecan trees in this netted area.

Since you have bear regularly visiting you might give real serious consideration to some type of electricity protection, probably fencing more than netting. Even without the wolves I'd do it just for bear.

I ran electricity to the coop, water also with a frost free hydrant. I'm glad I did both. The water was really handy for watering trees when I planted them, I used that station to wash and prep veggies for eating, canning or freezing, and my chicken butcher station was down there. I use a lot of water when I butcher.

The electricity allowed me to put a brooder in the coop, have lights, and have some outlets if I wanted to use electrical tools down there. Instead of running a cord down there I put in a breaker box and had several different circuits. The lights were a tremendous convenience, let alone all the other stuff.

Other than keeping the water thawed you don't need to heat your birds as long as they can get out of a direct breeze and you have decent ventilation. With a breeze, it's not just wind chill. Their down coats work because tiny pockets of air are trapped in the down. If a cold breeze ruffles their feathers and lets those air pockets escape it can get bad. Mine really don't like a cold wind.

The other issue is moisture. Birds can handle really cold weather fine as long as they are dry. You know how dangerous it is to step outside with wet hands or a wet face in winter. If humidity builds up in the coop (moisture from their breathing, poop until it freezes, from thawed water, for example) that can lead to frostbite. There are different ways to provide ventilation, roof, gable, or soffit vents, if you are into fancy even a cupola. If a ridge vent can be blocked by snow I'd be careful depending on it. Just leaving the top of a wall open and covering that with hardware cloth for predator protection can be very effective, especially if it is under an overhang to keep out rain and snow.

Some people do provide heat in winter, some people in colder climates than yours don't. Does the power ever go out on your mountain top? I kind of like passive protection.