Coop Design Question

[SilverChic]

Hey All! Ok, little backstory for my question. I've had chickens for several years. Right now, we have 40+ chickens (20 are mine, 20 are my daughter's, who is moving). Because the pens we have (3 total) are small and I have to hunch over to go inside (I'm 63 and my back is telling me "No more old lady, LOL"), all those are going bye-bye because we got the Producer Pride Poultry Pens (3). As you see, I have them lined up, and I want to make one the main coop. We live in central FL, it gets HOT, and we only have about 3-6 days of frigid weather (2-3 hrs of 32 degrees). SO the question is what and how should I close this in? Hubby says, "Just throw up some tarps around it," NOT!! I want to make it look a little nicer and cozy for my flock. I searched but couldn't find what I was looking for. I do appreciate any and all ideas!

 

[NatJ]

As you see, I have them lined up, and I want to make one the main coop.

SO the question is what and how should I close this in?

What do you think would make the main coop different from the others?

In your climate, the chickens probably prefer to have it mostly open so they get plenty of air movement.

I would probably put a roof on the whole thing to keep out rain and provide shade from the sun. I apparently think like your husband: maybe a heavy-duty tarp, some color that is not too offensive, fastened down nice and tight so it cannot flap in the breeze. For aesthetics, I think a properly-sized tarp that cannot flap is very different than an extra-large tarp with edges hanging loose and sagging in various ways. Measure before buying anything, but I think a tarp about 10 feet by 24 feet would be able to roof that row of pens without any extra sticking out to flap and be ugly.

For summer, that may be all the shelter the chickens need.
I see some trees in the photos, so you might pay attention to how much wind actually blows inside those pens. They might not need extra shelter even in winter in your climate.
Or you may want to cover part of some walls to keep wind and rain from blowing on the roosts. Pay attention to which direction the wind usually blows, because you might not need to do anything on some sides.

Depending on what kinds of chickens you have, I might do one or more of these:

For chickens that fly really well (example: Leghorns, Old English Game Bantams) you could put the roost right up under the peak of the roof, just low enough so the chickens do not bump their heads, and leave all the walls uncovered. Being right up under the roof will mostly protect them from wind, without you having to cover any of the walls.

Or you might put the roosts moderately high (maybe shoulder-high for a person) and cover the top third or half of the walls to provide protection from wind and from blown-in rain.

Or put the roosts lower, maybe waist-high, and cover the middle third of the walls (leaving open space both above and below for ventilation.)

You could also put roosts at varied heights in all the sections, with different amounts of protection from wind, and then watch where the chickens decide to sleep. They may move from one section to another as the seasons and the weather change, or they may pick one favorite area for all seasons and all weather.

Again, I like tarps, so I might get a few small tarps (4x6 feet) and put on different sections of wall after you see which ways the wind blows.

If you need extra wind & rain protection for a short time, you can slide big pieces of cardboard in between the walls where the pens come together. Cardboard that is trapped between two layers of wire mesh has surprised me by how well it holds up outdoors (I've had it last between a few days and a few months, depending on season and weather. I initially expected it to fall apart in the first rain, but it dried out and tolerated a few more rains.)

For nests, I would probably put them in the middle of walls where the pens come together. That spot is pretty well protected from weather, just by being under the middle of the roof. Any rain would have to blow quite a ways to get into the nest, and the walls of the nestbox itself will block wind from any hen that is sitting there.

We live in central FL, it gets HOT, and we only have about 3-6 days of frigid weather (2-3 hrs of 32 degrees).

Unless there is a strong wind blowing right on the chickens, or rain drenching them, those temperatures should not be a problem for most chickens. Of course young chicks are an exception in their first few weeks of life.

Hubby says, "Just throw up some tarps around it," NOT!! I want to make it look a little nicer and cozy for my flock. I searched but couldn't find what I was looking for. I do appreciate any and all ideas!

Chickens often seem to prefer open and ventilation, rather than "cozy." So you might not need to cover most of it at all.

If you want to provide a bit of shade and block some wind but not all, maybe a big sheet of lattice in wood or plastic? Or some climbing vines? (Beans and squash produce leaves & vines that are safe for chickens to eat, and they grow pretty quickly. Then again, the chickens may eat them faster than the vine can grow.)

For the roof, maybe some kind of roofing panels? I would go with opaque roofing, not transparent like a greenhouse, because your chickens are going to need shade in that climate.

Personally, I like tarps, if they are fastened tightly and do not flap, and if they are the right size for where they are put. But even if you do not want tarps as a long-term solution, you might try using tarps to test which areas you want to cover, before you do anything more permanent. It's much quicker to cut a few zip ties and remove a tarp than to un-do most other kinds of covering!

 

[SilverChic]

What do you think would make the main coop different from the others?

In your climate, the chickens probably prefer to have it mostly open so they get plenty of air movement.

I would probably put a roof on the whole thing to keep out rain and provide shade from the sun. I apparently think like your husband: maybe a heavy-duty tarp, some color that is not too offensive, fastened down nice and tight so it cannot flap in the breeze. For aesthetics, I think a properly-sized tarp that cannot flap is very different than an extra-large tarp with edges hanging loose and sagging in various ways. Measure before buying anything, but I think a tarp about 10 feet by 24 feet would be able to roof that row of pens without any extra sticking out to flap and be ugly.

For summer, that may be all the shelter the chickens need.
I see some trees in the photos, so you might pay attention to how much wind actually blows inside those pens. They might not need extra shelter even in winter in your climate.
Or you may want to cover part of some walls to keep wind and rain from blowing on the roosts. Pay attention to which direction the wind usually blows, because you might not need to do anything on some sides.

Depending on what kinds of chickens you have, I might do one or more of these:

For chickens that fly really well (example: Leghorns, Old English Game Bantams) you could put the roost right up under the peak of the roof, just low enough so the chickens do not bump their heads, and leave all the walls uncovered. Being right up under the roof will mostly protect them from wind, without you having to cover any of the walls.

Or you might put the roosts moderately high (maybe shoulder-high for a person) and cover the top third or half of the walls to provide protection from wind and from blown-in rain.

Or put the roosts lower, maybe waist-high, and cover the middle third of the walls (leaving open space both above and below for ventilation.)

You could also put roosts at varied heights in all the sections, with different amounts of protection from wind, and then watch where the chickens decide to sleep. They may move from one section to another as the seasons and the weather change, or they may pick one favorite area for all seasons and all weather.

Again, I like tarps, so I might get a few small tarps (4x6 feet) and put on different sections of wall after you see which ways the wind blows.

If you need extra wind & rain protection for a short time, you can slide big pieces of cardboard in between the walls where the pens come together. Cardboard that is trapped between two layers of wire mesh has surprised me by how well it holds up outdoors (I've had it lasts between a few days and a few months, depending on season and weather. I initially expected it to fall apart in the first rain, but it dried out and tolerated a few more rains.)

For nests, I would probably put them in the middle of walls where the pens come together. That spot is pretty well protected from weather, just by being under the middle of the roof. Any rain would have to blow quite a ways to get into the nest, and the walls of the nestbox itself will block wind from any hen that is sitting there.


Unless there is a strong wind blowing right on the chickens, or rain drenching them, those temperatures should not be a problem for most chickens. Of course young chicks are an exception in their first few weeks of life.


Chickens often seem to prefer open and ventilation, rather than "cozy." So you might not need to cover most of it at all.

If you want to provide a bit of shade and block some wind but not all, maybe a big sheet of lattice in wood or plastic? Or some climbing vines? (Beans and squash produce leaves & vines that are safe for chickens to eat, and they grow pretty quickly. Then again, the chickens may eat them faster than the vine can grow.)

For the roof, maybe some kind of roofing panels? I would go with opaque roofing, not transparent like a greenhouse, because your chickens are going to need shade in that climate.

Personally, I like tarps, if they are fastened tightly and do not flap, and if they are the right size for where they are put. But even if you do not want tarps as a long-term solution, you might try using tarps to test which areas you want to cover, before you do anything more permanent. It's much quicker to cut a few zip ties and remove a tarp than to un-do most other kinds of covering!

OMGOODNESS, what excellent insight! THANK YOU!! I love all your suggestions and never thought about a fraction of what you mentioned, wow!! After you explained it, I think I will try the tarps. Oh, there is one problem, though. I now have to tell hubby he might be right about the tarp. LOL. I love the lattice idea!! If I use that, maybe the vines will have a chance as I love that idea as well!! Thank you so very much, you rock!! God Bless. I will post pictures when I'm done.

 

[SilverChic]

Ok, one last question on this topic. The pen is a Producers Pride Poultry Pen, sold by TSC. My question is, do I need to add hardware cloth on it? I know I will be adding no-dig around the outer perimeter on the ground to keep things from digging in, but I wasn't sure if I needed it around the sides as well. The openings of the fencing are approximately 1 3/4 inches on the top half and 2x2 inches on the bottom half. We live in the country, so we have tons of predators. Raccoons and opossums are the most frequent visitors.

 

[NatJ]

Ok, one last question on this topic. The pen is a Producers Pride Poultry Pen, sold by TSC. My question is, do I need to add hardware cloth on it? I know I will be adding no-dig around the outer perimeter on the ground to keep things from digging in, but I wasn't sure if I needed it around the sides as well. The openings of the fencing are approximately 1 3/4 inches on the top half and 2x2 inches on the bottom half. We live in the country, so we have tons of predators. Raccoons and opossums are the most frequent visitors.

My understanding is that a raccoon can reach through that size mesh, but cannot climb entirely through.

If you put a roost near the edge, a raccoon might reach through and grab a sleeping chicken, unless you cover the sides with hardware cloth in that area.

Or if you put a roost near the middle of the pen, a raccoon can reach through the sides and still cannot reach the chickens, so they will be safe from raccoons at night even without hardware cloth.

Of course this goes for roof as well as sides.

For daytime, chickens should be able to run to a different side of the pen if a raccoon reaches in one side-- but I once saw a picture (trail cam or similar) and description of several raccoons working together, so one or another could grab a chicken no matter which way the chickens ran. The person explained that the chickens would not just stand in the middle of the pen where they would have been safe: they kept trying to run farther from one raccoon until the reached another side, where they were in reach of another raccoon. That person's solution was to put plywood on two sides to make a corner, so the chickens could run there and avoid raccoons grabbing them. Plywood was probably better than hardware cloth in that case, because it would look like a safe spot to the chickens when they wanted to hide. (That was a chain link dog kennel, but the size of the openings is pretty similar, so I expect it would apply to your style of pen too.)

You could put hardware cloth on the bottom part of the walls, to keep a raccoon from reaching through at the level where chickens stand and spend their days.

For other predators, that mesh size will provide good protection against some (dog) and let others in (weasel, snake), so whether to cover it will depend on exactly which creatures are in your area and how much you are worried about each one.

If you are covering it, do not forget the roof. A solid roof could prevent anything going through. A tarp can be ripped by most kinds of predators, although they might try to go through more exposed areas first. If the roosts are far enough below the top, nothing will be able to reach the chickens through the top, so you would only be concerned with things that can fit their whole body through the mesh.

 

[NatJ]

OMGOODNESS, what excellent insight! THANK YOU!! I love all your suggestions and never thought about a fraction of what you mentioned, wow!! After you explained it, I think I will try the tarps. Oh, there is one problem, though. I now have to tell hubby he might be right about the tarp. LOL. I love the lattice idea!! If I use that, maybe the vines will have a chance as I love that idea as well!! Thank you so very much, you rock!! God Bless. I will post pictures when I'm done.

I've got one of those pens as well, and have spent a lot of time thinking about the possibilities

Glad it was helpful!

 

[SilverChic]

My understanding is that a raccoon can reach through that size mesh, but cannot climb entirely through.

If you put a roost near the edge, a raccoon might reach through and grab a sleeping chicken, unless you cover the sides with hardware cloth in that area.

Or if you put a roost near the middle of the pen, a raccoon can reach through the sides and still cannot reach the chickens, so they will be safe from raccoons at night even without hardware cloth.

Of course this goes for roof as well as sides.

For daytime, chickens should be able to run to a different side of the pen if a raccoon reaches in one side-- but I once saw a picture (trail cam or similar) and description of several raccoons working together, so one or another could grab a chicken no matter which way the chickens ran. The person explained that the chickens would not just stand in the middle of the pen where they would have been safe: they kept trying to run farther from one raccoon until the reached another side, where they were in reach of another raccoon. That person's solution was to put plywood on two sides to make a corner, so the chickens could run there and avoid raccoons grabbing them. Plywood was probably better than hardware cloth in that case, because it would look like a safe spot to the chickens when they wanted to hide. (That was a chain link dog kennel, but the size of the openings is pretty similar, so I expect it would apply to your style of pen too.)

You could put hardware cloth on the bottom part of the walls, to keep a raccoon from reaching through at the level where chickens stand and spend their days.

For other predators, that mesh size will provide good protection against some (dog) and let others in (weasel, snake), so whether to cover it will depend on exactly which creatures are in your area and how much you are worried about each one.

If you are covering it, do not forget the roof. A solid roof could prevent anything going through. A tarp can be ripped by most kinds of predators, although they might try to go through more exposed areas first. If the roosts are far enough below the top, nothing will be able to reach the chickens through the top, so you would only be concerned with things that can fit their whole body through the mesh.

Great information, again!! THANK YOU! Hawks are the biggest in the daytime, raccoons and opossums at night, opossums more so than anything else. They free-range during the day and have several "safe spaces" within a short distance to run to should a hawk show up. As you saw in the previous photos, that area is also covered with oaks and brush. Opossums come in the evening and go after the feed, but I have Grandpa's Feeders, and I just put a brick on them at night so they don't open. The roof has heavy metal, like the sides, and a canvas cover over that. So, I have three cages, 8x8, lined up back-to-back. Two are runs, joined and opened as one, and one is the coop area, located at one end. The roost is approximately 4 ft from the top of the cage and approximately 4 ft from the ground in the coop area. I have placed the nesting boxes on a shelf on the side of the cage that backs up to the first run area, in the middle of that wall. Approx. 2-3 ft from the side walls. (I'll take pictures tomorrow). I think I will put hardware cloth around at least the coop portion for protection at night. I will have a chicken door to let them out into the run after sunrise, then I will let them free-range well after that. Hubby and I plan on putting the feeders at the other end of the run, a full 8x8 cage away from the chickens. Instead of putting wire around the perimeter, I want to use cinderblocks or pavers, and I also have a No-Dig animal barrier. Do you think I have my bases covered? Again, thank you for all your wealth of information!!

 

[NatJ]

Great information, again!! THANK YOU! Hawks are the biggest in the daytime, raccoons and opossums at night, opossums more so than anything else. They free-range during the day and have several "safe spaces" within a short distance to run to should a hawk show up. As you saw in the previous photos, that area is also covered with oaks and brush. Opossums come in the evening and go after the feed, but I have Grandpa's Feeders, and I just put a brick on them at night so they don't open. The roof has heavy metal, like the sides, and a canvas cover over that. So, I have three cages, 8x8, lined up back-to-back. Two are runs, joined and opened as one, and one is the coop area, located at one end. The roost is approximately 4 ft from the top of the cage and approximately 4 ft from the ground in the coop area. I have placed the nesting boxes on a shelf on the side of the cage that backs up to the first run area, in the middle of that wall. Approx. 2-3 ft from the side walls. (I'll take pictures tomorrow). I think I will put hardware cloth around at least the coop portion for protection at night. I will have a chicken door to let them out into the run after sunrise, then I will let them free-range well after that. Hubby and I plan on putting the feeders at the other end of the run, a full 8x8 cage away from the chickens. Instead of putting wire around the perimeter, I want to use cinderblocks or pavers, and I also have a No-Dig animal barrier. Do you think I have my bases covered? Again, thank you for all your wealth of information!!

That sounds pretty good to me. If there's anything you missed, I don't notice it, so hopefully someone else will point it out.

Instead of putting wire around the perimeter, I want to use cinderblocks or pavers, and I also have a No-Dig animal barrier.

My understanding is that wire really does work better than cinder blocks or pavers. The idea is that an animal knows it cannot dig through a paver, so it backs up and digs a longer tunnel underneath. But with wire mesh, the animal tries to dig and gets stopped, but does not realize it can back up and dig under the whole width of the wire. I do not have any personal experience to say if this is right or wrong, but I have read it frequently on this site, and it does seem to make sense. Be aware that wire does not last forever. It rusts away at some point, which comes sooner or later depending on your climate and the quality of the wire.

I don't know enough about the No-Dig barrier to say how it works or how well it works.

Something I have done with pavers a few times: covered the entire floor inside the pen with them. That will not keep a predator from starting to dig a tunnel, but it will keep the predator from coming up inside the pen. I did it for some temporary pens, and later when I moved the pens I moved the pavers too. Disadvantages include that it does not give the chickens access to the ground, that the hard surface might be hard on the chickens' feet unless you use a lot of bedding, and that rats or mice can make tunnels to live underneath the pavers where they are safe from predators. Since I did not get the pavers completely level, that did make it harder to clean the pen, because my shovel kept catching on edges.