coop design questions

[U_Stormcrow]

...and on the subject of arbitrary rules, 2x6s 16"oc is one of those. Whether to use a 2x6 or a 2x4 or a 2x8 or more, 12"oc, 16"oc, 24"oc, etc is a factor of span and load. Larger boards (or doubled timbers) allow greater spans, as does the use of LVL as opposed to southern yellow pine, "whitewood", or other fast growth woods. Closer spacing allows greater loads. You can go a little thicker on boards and increase spacing between them, or the reverse.

Don't need to factor snow loads? Less framing. Don't need to walk on the roof structure? Less framing. Lightweight roof (or merely HW cloth)? Less framing.

Its a rule of thumb, which doesn't consider the system... Arbitrary. And yet, a suitable recommend absent special circumstances.

 

[Sally PB]

The 4/10 guideline really helped me when we were designing and building our coop and run. Hubby told me how big he could build with what materials we had. It was up to me to figure out how many chickens to get. Had I not seen the 4/10 suggestion, I most likely would have ended up with too many birds, and maybe more problems than I could deal with as a beginner.

After almost a year with chickens, I know I'd like to get more. I also know I'd like to enlarge my run area. I don't know if I can enlarge the coop, so I know what my limit is for number of birds.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Your own example, "The winter run area on the other hand is darn close to 5 sqft per bird" is evidence, your covered run and house is essentially an open air coop design with nesting boxes, and is closer to 6 or 7 sq ft per bird in total. Its merely a matter of how you choose to label things.

My coop is a coop, not an open air. It has roof, walls, floor and door. My winter "run" offers protection from elements not predators. In this way you could say I'm providing an open air coop during days but a small, 4x7 with two 7 foot roosting bars and external mounted nests, coop for protection at night.

If you read carefully what I've been saying you see we agree that if an area is provided where birds will be kept for extended periods then 4 sqft per bird is not enough. Where we don't agree is the need of stating an insufficient space if that type of management will not be practiced.

My largest concern with this type of "education" is people will put too much money into a coop and not provide large enough runs. People put all the funds into a coop that is not large enough to be the sole area for birds and have fantasies of free ranging with no losses to predators. Predators happen. Those birds are then kept in a space that is inadequate as it now is acting as a run.

In attempt to educate, as BYC forum is intended to function, I will once a year bring up the silly and only stated here "rule of thumb" for space per bird. To educate you must provide all angles and facts so a person can take this information into account with their intended management style or allowable space in yard for birds. Make an informed decision by themselves. To dictate what must be done with untrue injection of "rule of thumb" and never before written, except here on BYC, hard numbers of a minimum space is counterproductive to any form of education. By definition it's propaganda.

 

[aart]

By definition it's propaganda.

 

[3KillerBs]

never before written, except here on BYC,

I linked you one source other then BYC for this information -- which came from agricultural professionals at a time when modern intensive methods did not yet exist -- but you seem to be determined to disregard it.

Additionally, you seem to be determined to ignore the fact that this rule of thumb for coop space is almost always given as part of a list which includes both "4 square feet in the coop" and "10 square feet in the run" -- creating a straw man and arguing against a recommendation for 4 square feet total housing that isn't actually being made.

Straw man arguments are not helpful, especially when one of the main points in our attempts to educate new chicken owners is to warn them off those prefab, "dollhouse" coops that claim chicken capacity based on commercial, intensive management numbers.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Speaking only for myself, as a frequent poster offering the offending "4 sq ft/" comment, I do emphasize that the "rule of thumb" or general recommendation is 4/10/1 - 4 sq ft house, 10 sq ft run, 1 sq ft free ventilation - and then I go on to talk about the importance of thinking of the whole as a system. Or offer example from my own experience, which involves more space even than that.

Maybe there are some who only answer the question asked, without volunteering more - I honestly don't pay much attention - but if its a windmill you want to tilt at, there likely are a few standing in the fields of BYC threads somewhere. Enjoy!

 

[junior67]

not sure why all of this is on this thread. I know what I have set aside for the coop and run and it is more than enough for both. My husband has great carpentry skills so not worried about that at all. We have a fenced in yard so with supervision the chickens can run there but I also have dogs so that is why they can't free range all the time unless we divide the yard in half which we have talked about. But I always try to give my pets at least the recommended space or bigger. I have a large cage for 1 parakeet (not the tiny little ones), a dwarf hamster is in a 40 gal tank, when we had guinea pigs they were in a 5'x3' wire cage that we built. So all this being said the coop will either be 4x8 or 8x8 just need to see on what my husband feels is best and the run will be 8x10 covered and most likely some extra that will be uncovered. The nest boxes will be on the outside of the coop so that isn't even included in the 4x8. I am not putting my coop "in" my run but instead will be attached to it. We are still trying to figure out if we will raise it 2' or not if so then they also have that area under the coop that they can use as part of their run.

All that said this argument is a mute point on this post. I have done my research for what is the min for happy healthy birds and that is what I will follow if not more. Same as I have done for any other pet that we have owned.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Apologies @junior67 , did not mean to hijack your thread in response to the other poster. Hopes you have a rewarding and successful chicken experience, you seem to be off to a great start, and you are clearly a conscientious owner. All kept animals should be so lucky.

 

[junior67]

In attempt to educate, as BYC forum is intended to function, I will once a year bring up the silly and only stated here "rule of thumb" for space per bird.

I have done a LOT of research on chickens and space etc. and I have to say that just about anywhere I looked the 4 sq ft coop and 10 sq ft of run space per standard chicken is the same. so not just some "rule of thumb" for here.

 

[IdyllwildAcres]

I would skip the area under the coop, build it to the ground. I would not want to have to crawl through poop to clean under, or retrieve a broody from under that.
Bigger is better. Size matters. Make it ez for you.