corn/soy free poultry fed fishmeal

[learningaboutpoutry]

As more people are looking for corn and soy free poultry I find that the majority of them are fed fish and crab meal. I have read it can pass into their yolks, and livers especially. Crab has a mercury level of .1 which is right up there with a can of tuna. Why does there not seem to be much concern over this? Is it not enough to affect bird or human health?

 

[OrpingtonManiac]

I'm not an expert, but i imagine only a tiny fraction of that mercury would be passed into the yolks.
It is quite worrying though!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

As more people are looking for corn and soy free poultry I find that the majority of them are fed fish and crab meal. I have read it can pass into their yolks, and livers especially. Crab has a mercury level of .1 which is right up there with a can of tuna. Why does there not seem to be much concern over this? Is it not enough to affect bird or human health?

there are plenty of substitutes for corn, whose primary purpose in feed is to provide energy and control costs.

There are few good substitutes for soy (meal), because its primary contribution to chicken feed is critical amino acids (like Methionine) not readily available from other plant sources. The best alternatives are defatted animal/insect products - fish meal, crab meal, porcine blood meal, etc. Inclusion rates over around 10% are claimed by some to impart off flavors to the eggs (I don't know, my taste is "impaired") and the industry is trying to get inclusion rates under 5% (cost is a big factor here) - though there is a poplar and effective "make at home" feed recipe that calls for 10% fish meal for which I've seen few (if any) complaints about off flavors.

Depending on who you ask, crab has a mercury level somewhere between very very little and extremely little. I note you didn't list a measurement in your post.

"Crab has a mercury level of .1 which is right up there with a can of tuna."

Ummm. No. Not from any reputable source I can find.

Here's FDA - Crab's mean and median mercury levels are 0.065 and 0.05 PARTS PER MILLION, respectively. Canned light tuna is .126 and 0.075 respectively, almost twice as high on average. Canned albacore tuna is .35/.338 (again, parts per million) roughly 5x as high. Mackerel, Shark, Swordfish, tilefish higher still.

This makes sense - mercury builds in critters further up the food chain, as they consume masses of those lower on the food chain (like crabs) over their typically longer life spans.

So your 1.5 year old chicken, which has likely consumed about 110 pounds of feed, has consumed (at most) 11# of crab meal in that time. More likely, less than 5.5#. That's, at most, 0.000324 g of mercury. Much of which passed thru the body, the remainder of which is mostly concentrated in the brain & kidneys. Which most people don't eat anyways.

Your 6# broiler, having eaten around 20# of feed +/- has consumed around 0.00006 g of mercury. Again, mostly in the brain & kidneys.

For comparison, your 5 oz (142g) can of albacore tuna contains (using the FDA's figures) about 0.00005 g of mercury.

That's why we aren't concerned/don't care. Because a 6# broiler, in its whole body, contains about as much mercury from its feed intake from crab meal (assuming its in the feed) as a single 5oz can of albacore tuna - and its mostly concentrated in parts of the bird we largely don't eat. Our 4.5# layer (now stewing hen) is like five of those cans - or two 6oz servings of swordfish.

and if someone wants to check my math, I'm fine with that. When dealing with numbers this tiny, its easy for a conversion error to slip in.

 

[AGeese]

For what it's worth I just ordered a 12 pack of canned tuna for myself. Doesn't mercury have to pass the blood brain barrier or am I thinking of lead? How does it even pass it?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

For what it's worth I just ordered a 12 pack of canned tuna for myself. Doesn't mercury have to pass the blood brain barrier or am I thinking of lead? How does it even pass it?

Mercury enters the brain relatively easy. But dosage is still relatively miniscule. You want to live forever or something?

 

[AGeese]

Mercury enters the brain relatively easy. But dosage is still relatively miniscule. You want to live forever or something?

For a time I added it to the list, now PFAs and PUFAs got me covered.

 

[learningaboutpoutry]

there are plenty of substitutes for corn, whose primary purpose in feed is to provide energy and control costs.

There are few good substitutes for soy (meal), because its primary contribution to chicken feed is critical amino acids (like Methionine) not readily available from other plant sources. The best alternatives are defatted animal/insect products - fish meal, crab meal, porcine blood meal, etc. Inclusion rates over around 10% are claimed by some to impart off flavors to the eggs (I don't know, my taste is "impaired") and the industry is trying to get inclusion rates under 5% (cost is a big factor here) - though there is a poplar and effective "make at home" feed recipe that calls for 10% fish meal for which I've seen few (if any) complaints about off flavors.

Depending on who you ask, crab has a mercury level somewhere between very very little and extremely little. I note you didn't list a measurement in your post.

"Crab has a mercury level of .1 which is right up there with a can of tuna."

Ummm. No. Not from any reputable source I can find.

Here's FDA - Crab's mean and median mercury levels are 0.065 and 0.05 PARTS PER MILLION, respectively. Canned light tuna is .126 and 0.075 respectively, almost twice as high on average. Canned albacore tuna is .35/.338 (again, parts per million) roughly 5x as high. Mackerel, Shark, Swordfish, tilefish higher still.

This makes sense - mercury builds in critters further up the food chain, as they consume masses of those lower on the food chain (like crabs) over their typically longer life spans.

So your 1.5 year old chicken, which has likely consumed about 110 pounds of feed, has consumed (at most) 11# of crab meal in that time. More likely, less than 5.5#. That's, at most, 0.000324 g of mercury. Much of which passed thru the body, the remainder of which is mostly concentrated in the brain & kidneys. Which most people don't eat anyways.

Your 6# broiler, having eaten around 20# of feed +/- has consumed around 0.00006 g of mercury. Again, mostly in the brain & kidneys.

For comparison, your 5 oz (142g) can of albacore tuna contains (using the FDA's figures) about 0.00005 g of mercury.

That's why we aren't concerned/don't care. Because a 6# broiler, in its whole body, contains about as much mercury from its feed intake from crab meal (assuming its in the feed) as a single 5oz can of albacore tuna - and its mostly concentrated in parts of the bird we largely don't eat. Our 4.5# layer (now stewing hen) is like five of those cans - or two 6oz servings of swordfish.

and if someone wants to check my math, I'm fine with that. When dealing with numbers this tiny, its easy for a conversion error to slip in.

Check the omni fish mercury calculator. Crab is listed average of .1. Many of the mercury charts on the internet are old.
Also check - https://dec.alaska.gov/eh/vet/fish-monitoring-program/fish-tissue-mercury

 

[Altairsky]

People tend to obsess over things, often the wrong things. It's pointless to try to make them change their beliefs. We can guide them towards the right information but it's up to them what to do with the information we provide. Sometimes these beliefs are almost a religion. I always let everyone believe what they prefer - unless it directly affects me - , for the peace in the flock.

I personally believe that anything processed is harmful in a way or another. I feed my chickens locally milled seeds, and real meat protein from the butcher. They also eat plastic bags and styrofoam if they catch garbage flying around. Is that healthy? No. Am I concerned about plastic in the eggs? No. If I was concerned about that, I'd rather jump off a cliff. There are so much worse things out there to be concerned about rather than chickens eating plastic chips, soy, corn or crabs.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Check the omni fish mercury calculator. Crab is listed average of .1. Many of the mercury charts on the internet are old.
Also check - https://dec.alaska.gov/eh/vet/fish-monitoring-program/fish-tissue-mercury

Omni Fish Mercury calculator is put together by someone of no particular skill, experience, or expertise - in short, someone no more qualified to opine than I am.

There underlying data was obtained primarily from here:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22732656/

Its a "synthesis" - basically a mashing of other sources in hopes of finding something new. It seems to have looked at the USDA numbers (as I did), state numbers, and numbers from unspecified literature, then calculated some means and medians.

You can see the chart here:

Nothing in it disputes anything I said.

and yes, PARTS PER MILLION.

The "new" thing that the studied added was the observation that by including sources of lower quality, "the seafood database" the mean Hg levels of the various tested species might be higher or lower. Same thing happens when I count heads or tails of a series of flipped pennies.

FDA and EPA levels for acceptable Hg levels are 1ppm and 0.3ppm, respectively.

 

[learningaboutpoutry]

there are plenty of substitutes for corn, whose primary purpose in feed is to provide energy and control costs.

There are few good substitutes for soy (meal), because its primary contribution to chicken feed is critical amino acids (like Methionine) not readily available from other plant sources. The best alternatives are defatted animal/insect products - fish meal, crab meal, porcine blood meal, etc. Inclusion rates over around 10% are claimed by some to impart off flavors to the eggs (I don't know, my taste is "impaired") and the industry is trying to get inclusion rates under 5% (cost is a big factor here) - though there is a poplar and effective "make at home" feed recipe that calls for 10% fish meal for which I've seen few (if any) complaints about off flavors.

Depending on who you ask, crab has a mercury level somewhere between very very little and extremely little. I note you didn't list a measurement in your post.

"Crab has a mercury level of .1 which is right up there with a can of tuna."

Ummm. No. Not from any reputable source I can find.

Here's FDA - Crab's mean and median mercury levels are 0.065 and 0.05 PARTS PER MILLION, respectively. Canned light tuna is .126 and 0.075 respectively, almost twice as high on average. Canned albacore tuna is .35/.338 (again, parts per million) roughly 5x as high. Mackerel, Shark, Swordfish, tilefish higher still.

This makes sense - mercury builds in critters further up the food chain, as they consume masses of those lower on the food chain (like crabs) over their typically longer life spans.

So your 1.5 year old chicken, which has likely consumed about 110 pounds of feed, has consumed (at most) 11# of crab meal in that time. More likely, less than 5.5#. That's, at most, 0.000324 g of mercury. Much of which passed thru the body, the remainder of which is mostly concentrated in the brain & kidneys. Which most people don't eat anyways.

Your 6# broiler, having eaten around 20# of feed +/- has consumed around 0.00006 g of mercury. Again, mostly in the brain & kidneys.

For comparison, your 5 oz (142g) can of albacore tuna contains (using the FDA's figures) about 0.00005 g of mercury.

That's why we aren't concerned/don't care. Because a 6# broiler, in its whole body, contains about as much mercury from its feed intake from crab meal (assuming its in the feed) as a single 5oz can of albacore tuna - and its mostly concentrated in parts of the bird we largely don't eat. Our 4.5# layer (now stewing hen) is like five of those cans - or two 6oz servings of swordfish.

and if someone wants to check my math, I'm fine with that. When dealing with numbers this tiny, its easy for a conversion error to slip in.

What about the eggs?