Cornish Cross Experiment (no, not breeding my own)

[jessicayarno]

Okay so i did my research on it and you are correct it isn't an antibiotic.. It is however a "medication" and I chose not to give my chickens medications unless they need them.. There is a reason that you aren't to feed medicated feed to laying hens, and that is because it is passed on to their eggs and they would not be safe to eat, so why on earth would I (and i am speaking for myself) eat the meat of a bird that has been fed this same medication?????? I have said, to each his own... I also don't use any man made fertilizers or bug sprays, or pesticides on my garden, and I know alot of people do.. I personally don't care to consume food with that crap in it...

 

[TrinityFarms]

Good to hear the different opinions on antibiotics and antiparasitic medication. I'm glad we have a forum where we can state our opinions and also find out some facts. Here's the facts about the medication as it relates to the experiment I'm doing.

Aprolium - an antiparasitic medication in the chick starter, fed to the birds for the first three weeks. Amprolium blocks the thiamine transporter in a species of parasites called Eimeria. The infection caused by this parasite is called coccidiosis.

Penicillin G Potassium & Streptomycin Sulfate - these are antibiotics that attack bacterial infections, which specifically in poultry are responsible for chronic respiratory disorder, transmissible enteritis, and infectious sinusitis. These antibiotics are in the vitamin supplement that goes into their drinking water for the first five days. After the first five days a non-medicated vitamin supplement is used.

The reason I'm using these medications in the current batch of poultry I have is because I am using the "Brooding and Feeding Instructions for Cornish Cross" supplied by Anstey Hatchery (the source of the chicks) to get results that will serve as a base point to which to compare future experiments. The goal of the experiments is to be able to mix my own feed using cheaply available grains and protein supplements without sacrificing the quick growth rate of cornish cross.

To answer Ken's questions: in this first experiment all four groups are receiving the same feed and care. It is the first time using this cage or doing an experiment like this, so I want to test that the sample size is large enough, and that there aren't differences in the four pen sections that would lead to a bias in future experiments. I already have a problem - the hatchery sent me unsexed birds, so I'm not sure how many pullets and cockerels are in each group. At this point I've randomly selected birds to be in each group. I weighed them afterwards. The average weight of the groups is as follows: A - 39.7g, B - 38.4g, C - 38.3g, D - 40.6g. I'm considering reassigning the birds into groups once they are able to be sexed, that is, into two groups of cockerels and two groups of pullets.

Yesterday I noticed one of the birds is starting to get splayed legs. I'm not sure whether this is simply a genetic flaw, or a deficiency in something. The vitamin supplement I'm using contains 2500mg niacinamide per 100g and I am putting in 1tsp per gallon of water as directed. I'm keeping my eyes out for other birds showing the same problem, but so far just the one.
A little bit of progress with the one with pasty butt today. I've been cleaning it regularly and today he was finally able to pass a lot of solids. The chick is still looking active, although I expect to have to clean him for a few more days still.

Thanks for all the posts on this thread.

 

[galanie]

Quote:
I absolutely respect your decision. And agree, in truth. In practice, I'm lazy though and still give medicated feed (but not antibiotics in the water) to the little ones. My garden though has been organic for 30 years. Those are just decisions we all make for ourselves and none are "wrong."

 

[UncleTommy]

Might I suggest this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Pastured-Poultry-Profits-Joel-Salatin/dp/0963810901/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_3

when I started getting chickens my brother lent it to me, I don't have nor do I plan to raise meat chickens but it was quite an interesting read. He give step by step instructions from hatchery to sale and he does not use medications or antibiotics, hes all about cleanliness to prevent disease. Its not a cheap book, compared to others, its like 20 bucks, but its really worth it, plus if you pasture, it keeps you from shoveling a bunch of...well, yeah. Oh and he also has a nice recipe for feed if you can find a mill to make it for you on the cheap.

 

[TrinityFarms]

Good reference Tommy. I'm a big fan of Joel Salatin's ideas, and you'll see in a previous post that I'm already raising my chickens on pasture using "chicken tractors" or drag-along cages. At the moment I have five drag-cages, each is 8'x12'. Unfortunately in my climate we can only pasture chickens from May to September, sometimes October but the risk of ascites is pretty high that late in the year (at least with the cornish, my dual-purpose birds are still loving it out there). I feel there is still a lack of quantitative data to compare pasturing methods to confinement methods. This is part of the motivation of the experiments, but I won't be able to make those comparisons until next summer. Of course some things, such as animal well-being can't be quantified.

Does anyone have ideas on the chick with splayed legs?

 

[KNAndrs]

Thanks for letting me know. Are you recording feed weights that you distribute? Are you recording what you are doing in a log? Can we see pictures of your pens as well?

I really appreciate you willingness to try new things and work hard at it (including keeping logs)

KEN

 

[eggbuster]

There is absolutely no problem with mixing your own feed; I do. I use wheat, peas, flax (in winter) kelp, and yeast. You can get a great grinder from premier poultry that is well designed and will grind 10 gallons in less then 2 minutes; it is meant to be used for several hours a day although you won't catch me doing that. I course grind the feed because they sift through and waste the peas and kelp if I don't.

They all free range out of tractors in summer and barn in winter. It is possible to get vitamins for the water without medications added. I only use it in winter if there is a shortage of greens or alfalfa. I don't usually do meaties in winter, but I am raising a batch of 20 for breeding in the spring. My first 2 Cx ladies are still going strong at 1.5 yrs. I have also been surprised at how inconsistant the sizes are. I had to get 20 in hopes of coming up with 5 that will suit my purposes. I am thinking they have some crappy stock in Canada.

I lost one chick from this last batch from getting piled on; my bad. I do suppliment with raw milk when I have extra.

 

[TrinityFarms]

Ken: yes, I've been weighing the feed each day before I put it in and recording it. So far they've been eating around 1000g per day, which I think is still on track for the expected 9.45kg feed intake in the first week. Today I started limit feeding 3 hours in the morning, 3 hours in the afternoon as per the directions from Anstey. As well, the lighting changes from 24 hours of light to 24 hours of light from infrared heat lamps while increasing the light slightly during feeding. Today is the last day using the medicated vitamin mix. I have a log of observations each day - here's a quick summary

Day 1 - 100% live arrival; 65 unsexed chicks (October 28th)
Day 2 - B4 pasty butt; D2 leg problem
Day 3 - B4 pasty butt; D2 leg problem; D11 pasty butt?
Day 4 - B4 pasty butt; D2 leg problem; D9 pasty butt?
Day 5 - limit feeding 3hrs/3hrs; no nightlight except heat lamps;

I think B4 is healed up now. D11 and D9 just had some poop caught on their rears I think, because they seem fine now. I'm not sure how long D2 is going to last, he's still active and healthy like the other chicks, but he's definitely got splayed legs.
I'll try to get a picture of the brooder cage up tomorrow.


Thanks for the info eggbuster. I've mixed my own feed as well, but what I'm really searching for is quantitative data on the weight gain difference between a grain-based feed recipe (and several other factors) and the recommended care of the birds as per the hatchery. I'm very interested in the grinder though, as mine broke this year. Do you have a link you could post? It is a bit difficult to get them to eat their peas isn't it.
The medicated vitamin mix is only used for the first five days. This is the first time I've used it, and it's only because I'm following the recommended care instructions from Ansteys.