Cornish Thread

[chickened]

I would agree with Walt about getting to shows, there have been a few shows where we have taken birds, and the condition is not where I would like it but representing the breed to me is important especially the large fowl and in our part of the world there are not many shown. But the greatest part of a chicken show is the talking with other exhibitors. There is no other exhibition group that I have been around where information is so freely shared.

We especially enjoy showing our large fowl and had some success on some days, all our birds are naturally bred tend to be vigorous and lay enough for us to be able to keep few for breeders, eat a few and sell a few.

AGAIN Get to a show or two even if you are not showing, it is amazing how friendly the poultry groups are in general and even if you don't talk to a Cornish breeder there is lots to learn.

I have not shown birds since I was a teen but have attended shows just to help exhibitors and I will offer to help someone out if they have breeds that I am interested in learning about especially.

 

[Cedarknob]

Thank you all for the help. I have been attending a few shows in the last three or four years, looking for birds and getting a feel for what the judges are looking for. It has been and will continue be be difficult for me to get away for over a day, and I know that getting the birds ready will add to the difficulties. The expense is a big issue for me also, but maybe if just pay entry fees instead of buying birds.............................. LOL

I evidently left a gate unfastened and one of my DCs squeezed out and paid a visit to the WCs pen two days ago, and administered a pretty good beating to the WCs head through the wire. The white was eating but not dancing for the girls yesterday; acting even more quiet, and not eating late today. I had to leave as soon as they were all fed, and he was up on the 3 foot roost tonight when I got home, but way too lethargic when handled. He's in isolation now, with loose bowels, and not interested even in a June bug treat. : (

Also, I found what I can only describe as a "wad" of 2 robins, a mouse and a sparrow in the grass near the pens last week, feathers and hair still on them but nearly rotted or digested off, and I can't figure what left them there unless a huge snake puked them up????????????????????? [Dead birds laying around last week followed by a chicken acting sick makes me paranoid, but I doubt it is related.]

 

[galanie]

They sure are not going appeal to everyone though, and I understand why some might like to see the original Indian Game preserved or bred back into  existence. I fell into what is probably the majority, once thinking that the true Cornish might be valued only as a cross to a quicker growing breed. Once having located some, I fell in love with the pure bred Cornish. They are not the easiest to breed and/or own, and Galanie is probably correct that any breed bred only to win at a show will probably suffer as far as production qualities. I have no way of knowing how much truth was in the legend, but have heard that before the Van Tress brothers moved on to dedicated breeder lines of already crossed birds, that they had developed a line of pure, quicker growing, even larger, and more productive Cornish to use as one parent line.  

If bred to the APA SOP the Cornish should do very well in shows and as meat birds. They should also be able to reproduce without human intervention. Most showbirds of any breed (if bred correctly) should excel at whatever they were bred for in the first place. If a person reads the first 38 pages of the SOP it is pretty clear that the structure of bird is very important in shows. It is really not a feather contest. I am an APA/ABA general lic judge and I have judged all over the US. I would not pick a Cornish or any other bird that is not put together in a practical way and feel like it could do what it is supposed to do. There are a few breeds that are strictly ornamental, but the Cornish is not one of them. We handle the birds, we don't just look at them through the cage. I also understand that most people do not know what really happens in a real poultry show. Anything can happen in a fair as they don't always use licensed judges and this is all many people have ever seen in the way of a show.

Walt

These are pretty much the points I was trying to make. Also keep in mind that in the 1800's, a bird that lay 150 or more eggs a year was considered a decent layer. So perhaps cornish were considered dual purpose then. But now, we expect more than 200 eggs a year before we'll say anything is a good layer. So even if they lay 4 eggs a week, by todays standards they are poor layers.

I've read in many breed threads the very same thing: That todays show birds are poor producers because the focus has been on looks alone. I'm not so sure I believe that. I think the birds are the same for the most part, it's our expectations that changed. That said, it is entirely possible that they could be bred with production in mind more, thus making them what we call good producers even today. That appears to be contradictory, but I don't think it is. Just that production hasn't suffered, it just hasn't been properly improved.

 

[Cedarknob]

I've read in many breed threads the very same thing: That todays show birds are poor producers because the focus has been on looks alone. I'm not so sure I believe that. I think the birds are the same for the most part, it's our expectations that changed. That said, it is entirely possible that they could be bred with production in mind more, thus making them what we call good producers even today. That appears to be contradictory, but I don't think it is. Just that production hasn't suffered, it just hasn't been properly improved.

I really had not thought about it from that angle, and you probably have a good point there. I know that when I was younger, a "heritage" line of a breed was used to describe a line kept pure for the breed's original purpose. Now that chickens have been developed for high commercial production of eggs or meat, and so few keep a flock for either or both, I have heard "heritage" used to describe birds that look only vaguely like the SOP of whatever breed they are supposed to be, or as a bantam Cornish breeder once told me, "It means bought from a hatchery to me.". I hope the current trend of more people wanting to keep chickens and produce their own food results in the word "heritage" being used again in the manner it once was.

 

[aviangems]

ARe those females his sisters?

 

[aviangems]

ARe those females his sisters?

I am referring to a satndar white cornish male posted by Steve H.

 

[galanie]

I really had not thought about it from that angle, and you probably have a good point there. I know that when I was younger, a "heritage" line of a breed was used to describe a line kept pure for the breed's original purpose. Now that chickens have been developed for high commercial production of eggs or meat, and so few keep a flock for either or both, I have heard "heritage" used to describe birds that look only vaguely like the SOP of whatever breed they are supposed to be, or as a bantam Cornish breeder once told me, "It means bought from a hatchery to me.".  I hope the current trend of more people wanting to keep chickens and produce their own food results in the word "heritage" being used again in the manner it once was.   

Yep, often the breed is listed as a "heritage breed" but that doesn't mean that one's particular strain are heritage. Like you say, the word is overused and confuses people since hatcheries have picked up on this sales angle.

 

[fowlman01]

Heritage means different things to different people and it is thrown around pretty loosely. As an example: The APA has no position on Heritage poultry even though people say they do. They have had a Heritage poultry committee, but the committee has never come up with any kind of plan or guidelines as it relates to poultry. Hopefully they will, but so far they have nothing in place.

The ALBC has a definition for Heritage poultry......but no one else does. People can say anything they like online as most of us know, it does not make it true.

Walt

 

[Cedarknob]

Aviangems, I had to "unblock" a member to see what you are asking. The white females in the first picture were Ameraucanas, a Cornish Rock, and [I think] a crossbred Cornish.

As you know, I lost the pullet from you, and used the cock over three whites from another line, plus three darks. Looks like I'm going to lose him too, I don't think he is going to recover from the head beating he took through the fence. I'm thankful to have some chicks from him to work with. Thank you for selling him to me.

 

[kfacres]

Aviangems, I had to "unblock" a member to see what you are asking. The white females in the first picture were Ameraucanas, a Cornish Rock, and [I think] a crossbred Cornish.

As you know, I lost the pullet from you, and used the cock over three whites from another line, plus three darks. Looks like I'm going to lose him too, I don't think he is going to recover from the head beating he took through the fence. I'm thankful to have some chicks from him to work with. Thank you for selling him to me.

and the truth comes out.. someone who wasn't who they really were finally slipped the truth of identity.