Cornish Thread

[CanadianBuckeye]

PS Hellbender I like that pearl eye colour your avatar beastie has! Unfortunately none of my cornish seem to have pearl eyes, although at least they are more yellow than red.

 

[hellbender]

What is the best way to develop that mind's eye goal? I look at my birds and I see what I like and don't like, but I am having a hard time figuring out how to put two birds with faults/good things together, so that the offspring will be better. I suppose that it will be mostly trial and error, given that I have so few to start out with.

That's a difficult question. Do you have a bird in your small flock that comes near your ideal? If so, That bird, paired with one of a different gender that comes in as a close second would be one way to start. If NO birds in your flock is anywhere near your IDEAL, you might have to acquire another bird OR two that do fit your needs and go from there.

By simply breeding what you have (provided what you have pleases you not) you can only go side-ways and ultimately DOWN.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but even my nemesis might agree with this.

RON

 

[kfacres]

hindsight is always 20/20. Futuristic vision is always blurry. Your individual short term goals likely will always be changing, but as long as they are always very similar in the long run, you have an end point to shoot for.

The advice directly above this is very good, great actually. I'm involved with many species of livestock, (although currently not poultry), and I see this often. People that are barn blind and think they can make a moutain out of a mole hill. Quite often these people would be better off dispersing, and buying exactly what they want to raise, opposed to dedicating an entire lifetime trying to build something from the ground and poor quality stock. I know people that have dedicated their entire lives to this, and in the end only got part of the way there. Good stock cost about the same to raise as bad stock, sometimes less. Having what you want is always more enjoyable than having what you don't want. The intial investment, usually only takes one offspring crop to recoop return upon investment. It's that simple.

 

[kfacres]

Another thing, when keeping young males back to breed with, they need to be the elite of the most elite. There should never be any doubt that 'they' need to stay and be used to breed with. If there is anything average, or questionable about them, chances are you can make better and that particular critter doesn't deserve to stay around. On the same token, if a mature sire hasn't generated a son better than himself in the first 2 crops, then it's likely that he needs to be replaced as well for not doing his job. Each generation should be getting better overall, and if they aren't- then refer to the above with regards to bringing in a new outcross bloodline.

 

[hellbender]

Of course I concur with both of the directly above posts because they essentially say the same as I, but with far more words.

 

[theoldguy]

That's my point... If you are raising the birds to put meat on the table, then you need to select breeders that are increasing whatever traits you want to propagate, at the age that you are ready to butcher..

Let me clarify:

You want to butcher your birds at 12 weeks.

You have 3 cockerels to choose from. A- matures out at 8 weeks. B is in his prime at 12 weeks, and C takes 2 years to full mature and fill out. You keep all three, and at 2 years of age, Cockerel C is the lead candidate for mass and substance.

So, you have to make the decision- keep C because he's the big heavy mature bird, or keep B because he's the one that's the biggest, meatiest, and best carcass at 12 weeks? Maybe you should keep A because he'll shorten your days on feed.

In raising meat birds, days on feed is important, whether or not you free range. Maturity pattern is important as well. By keeping the slow growing, late maturity birds, the only thing you are doing is ensuring that your birds will be ready for the table later in life. Economically speaking- if you have a flock of birds that will lay on 80 percent of the final product by 12 weeks of age, and you have a flock that will lay on 100 percent to the final product at 12 months of age== which one is more productive? Practical? Feed efficient? More bang for you buck?

I raised Cornish for many years, and this whole thing about Cornish being slow maturing is hog wash. Yes they are slow growing, but compared to any other chicken they simply have more meat at nearly every stage of life than any others. Yes they are slow to mature, slow to crow, and slow to lay== but if you debone the entire bird, at nearly every stage of life- you'll find more leg and breast than anything else. The only thing I can tell is that they won't lay a layer of fat onto the carcass as early as most will-- but even mature the genetics, body style and capabilities aren't going to allow for that layer of fat anyways.

So, like I said, if it was my breeding program, I would select for the birds that fit the bill of what I want-- meaty carcasses at 12 weeks of age. Having a big massive, monster mature cock does me know good if he's a meatless, spindly legged, light weight 12 week old cockerel...

If you want a meat bird buy a Cornish cross, Or a red broiler (a little slower growing but can walk well at weeks old. A pure Cornish will take a lot longer and take more feed to grow out. I raise Cornish chickens.They are an older Breed and not the factory type birds.I had Cornish cross birds once,some couldn't walk or stand and 1 died a of a heart attack.They don't act like a real chicken and they have some real health issues if you grow them out beyond 8 to 10 weeks max.They do grow out fast but its the hybrid vigor in the cornish cross breeding that gives them the extreme weight gain.thanks all

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

Hellbender, kfacres, and old guy GREAT advice from all of you, thanks. Buckeyes are my breed of choice, I will apply that wisdom to figuring out a way to get the best ones I can across the border. I agree that it's a waste of time starting a breeding program with poor stock.
I find the dark Cornish fascinating, and Theoldguy even though they are a meat breed they have other qualities I like and that's why I have them. I have yet to eat one of my chickens, I don't have enough and I know each of them personally so that makes it tough.
No cornish x for us- we hate leftovers so we have no use for eight pound chickens anyway.
At first I didn't think it was so important to breed to the standard but I have changed my mind, I can see now how sloppy selection /breeding can ruin a breed. So, I'd like to select the best of what I have, and if I do decide to get serious about the Cornish I'll try with new, better stock.

While I am asking, I believe this Cornish is the "best" so far. But, I am mystified by his colour. I know it's too early to choose the best rooster but it's fun practice assessing them. I know that I should pick form before colour, but I was wondering if this rooster turns out to be the best, will he mess up the proper double laced colour for me down the road?This is not a flattering picture but it shows his odd colour. Seems to have a lot of unlaced red feathers. My other chicks have proper colour.

Sorry the photo uploader isn't working for me tonight, I'll try tomorrow.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

OK here he is, red shoulders and primaries without lacing. I read that light coloured roosters will breed better hens, dark coloured hens breed better roosters........ but isn't this going too far?

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

Great while the uploader is working I have a mystery rooster that I was wondering if anyone could see cornish in him. He has extra toes on his feet, he's my biggest rooster (very heavy). He's almost perfectly round, very broad breast, very short legs........... my thoughts were maybe red dorking and Cornish? Or Buckeye and Dorking? There's the single comb, and multiple toes that throw me off. He is very orange with a black tail. Any guesses if there might be cornish in him?

 

[kfacres]

nothing suggests cornish in any fashion. Good old fashioned mutts do nothing positive for a true breeding program.