Correcting Ameraucana's to SOP?

[RememberTheWay]

Silver Ameraucana are my favorite and I would love to have both Silver blue and silver lavender. Russell and John are both my favorite breeders of Ameraucana. I've read alot of their posts on the club forums.

I'm working on the Silver line through GypsyHen and maybe one day on golden blues.

I recently saw the line Russel had of the Silver Blues and they were gorgeous too! I can't remember if they were only large fowl or if they were bantams too. I know he lost all of that previous line and now is working to restore it for the blue silvers. I will have to look up the gold blues though. I am so in love with these lavender silvers I may just end up only working with that variety Don't tell the other birds here I said that! I don't have any of Gypsy hens lines but am aware of her. I admire Mike Gilbert's line and Stan Alder. I believe Mike was Russell's mentor though I stay in the archives on all the club forums and groups just reading, taking notes, and occasionally asking probably annoyingly specific questions I tend to hyper focus on hobbies and my breeding program is certainly no exception!

 

[NagemTX]

Pictures of the color. I lost the EE rooster I was going to use for the project so it's kinda on hold.

His son our of a silver Phoenix.

 

[RememberTheWay]

Ni

Pictures of the color. I lost the EE rooster I was going to use for the project so it's kinda on hold.

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His son our of a silver Phoenix.
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Nicely built birds! I tend to gravitate to the more silver/white type varieties though. I think the only gold based project I have here is my Mille fleur satin silkie project but I actually intended on taking that project to porcelain as well. I've been looking for answers on the difference in mature feather color if a bird is lavender but based on gold vs silver bc I was considering putting the silkie satin porcelains on silver instead of gold base but I can't get any clear answers. Now that I see the lavender silvers in person I'm inclined to think that my idea to base the silkies on silver vs gold probably will be beat, but then the variety wouldn't be considered porcelain anymore (I don't think) bc it's not gold anymore it's silver. Of course mottling would be added on top for the right color variety. But I love a good satin mille fleur silkie too

 

[NagemTX]

Silver base is for leakage issues. If its silver its less noticable or you get less brassyness in the feathers. Blue will be less brassy from sun exposer. If you have leakage in lavender its very, very hard to see if it's a silver base.

Gold base on black is suposta bring out the green sheen of the black feathers.

 

[RememberTheWay]

Silver base is for leakage issues. If its silver its less noticable or you get less brassyness in the feathers. Blue will be less brassy from sun exposer. If you have leakage in lavender its very, very hard to see if it's a silver base.

Gold base on black is suposta bring out the green sheen of the black feathers.

Yes- when we are talking about extend black based colors. But what I was referring to specifically was taking the color mille fleur which must be gold based (unless you are going for a different color scheme and using silver mille fleur) and then breeding in lavender. Mille fleur is not based on extended black it's based on gold partridge. When you breed lavender into millefleur you create the color porcelain. My question though for months has been how is the mature plumage changed by starting with silver based mille fleur vs gold based mille fleur to create ultimately a lavender - porcelain bird. I see some porcelain satin silkies that I like and others that I don't. Make sense now?

 

[NagemTX]

Yes- when we are talking about extend black based colors. But what I was referring to specifically was taking the color mille fleur which must be gold based (unless you are going for a different color scheme and using silver mille fleur) and then breeding in lavender. Mille fleur is not based on extended black it's based on gold partridge. When you breed lavender into millefleur you create the color porcelain. My question though for months has been how is the mature plumage changed by starting with silver based mille fleur vs gold based mille fleur to create ultimately a lavender - porcelain bird. I see some porcelain satin silkies that I like and others that I don't. Make sense now?

Yes it makes sense now. OK, so you mean how would you know the S/S verses the S/s in the males? S/s should be a light golden color.

Mature plumage on silver will be silver where it would be gold on gold base. So if you use silver for porcelain the areas where you would have the Isabella color would be silver instead. Lavender won't effect the silver coloring.

 

[RememberTheWay]

Yes it makes sense now. OK, so you mean how would you know the S/S verses the S/s in the males? S/s should be a light golden color.

Mature plumage on silver will be silver where it would be gold on gold base. So if you use silver for porcelain the areas where you would have the Isabella color would be silver instead. Lavender won't effect the silver coloring.

No- I'm speaking in hypotheticals.

My project I have started with my silkies is a "porcelain satin silkie"

Typically the only thing I have seen in the groups that people do to acheive the porcelain color is to take a gold based mille fleur (bantam Cochin and or D'uccle usually) and breed it to a lavender silkie. Then the best offspring would be bred together to get the porcelain color and then yrs of breeding back to silkies usually to acheive the silkie type. All of these people are using traditional mille fleur birds which means that the bird is gold partridge based, has mottling, spangling, and several other genes to clean up the color distribution and patterning. Once lavender is bred in and is homozygous the resulting offspring are all now gold based lavender expressing the mille fleur pattern but with the lavender dilution.

When I started the project I knew that self blue - all lavender or lavender non patterned birds are best done on a silver base for smoothness of color and to hide leakage. The lavender birds I've seen on silver bases have much better/cleaner color then gold based ones. Knowing this for non patterned lavender birds got me to thinking about my project and because I knew I would ultimately be breeding lavender in and changing the over all look of the mille fleur to porcelain, using the lavender gene -I had wondered what the difference in the two outcomes would be if one started with silver based mille fleur and bred in lavender vs gold based mille fleur and breeding in lavender.

I never could find anyone who had actually done this for me to look at and compare the outcomes of "porcelain" started from gold based mille fleur vs "porcelain" that started from silver based mille fleur. My silkie project so far is based on gold. But I had wondered if I might actually like the outcome better if I had started with silver mille fleur.

Of course- I do quite like the regular satin mille silkies and most people run a pen that creates both gold mille and porcelain eventually. Which would mean if I decided to go with silver Millie instead I would not get any gold millefleur in the pen it would all be silver mille fleur and the silver mille with lavender added. I've seen silver mille fleur projects in several breeds but I have yet to find anyone who has taken their silver mille fleur project on to a lavender silver mille fleur by breeding in lavender. Are you aware of anyone who has bred in lavender to a silver MF project? Of course I'm not certain what that color would even be called when lavender is added to gold mille fleur it's called "porcelain" and if it doesn't have mottling then it's called "Isabella". But both of those colors are gold based with lavender so I'm not certain that if one used silver based Millie instead that the outcome would even be called "porcelain" anymore

I've gotten way off track here- apologies for hijacking the topic

 

[NagemTX]

No- I'm speaking in hypotheticals.

My project I have started with my silkies is a "porcelain satin silkie"

Typically the only thing I have seen in the groups that people do to acheive the porcelain color is to take a gold based mille fleur (bantam Cochin and or D'uccle usually) and breed it to a lavender silkie. Then the best offspring would be bred together to get the porcelain color and then yrs of breeding back to silkies usually to acheive the silkie type. All of these people are using traditional mille fleur birds which means that the bird is gold partridge based, has mottling, spangling, and several other genes to clean up the color distribution and patterning. Once lavender is bred in and is homozygous the resulting offspring are all now gold based lavender expressing the mille fleur pattern but with the lavender dilution.

When I started the project I knew that self blue - all lavender birds are best done on a silver base for smoothness of color and to hide leakage. The lavender birds I've seen on silver bases have much better/cleaner color then gold based ones. Knowing this for non patterned lavender birds got me to thinking about my project and because I knew I would ultimately be breeding lavender in and changing the over all look of the mille fleur to porcelain, using the lavender gene -I had wondered what the difference in the two outcomes would be if one started with silver based mille fleur and bred in lavender vs gold based mille fleur and breeding in lavender.

I never could find anyone who had actually done this for me to look at and compare the outcomes of "porcelain" started from gold based mille fleur vs "porcelain" that started from silver based mille fleur. My silkie project so far is based on gold. But I had wondered if I might actually like the outcome better if I had started with silver mille fleur.

Of course- I do quite like the regular satin mille silkies and most people run a pen that creates both gold mille and porcelain eventually. Which would mean if I decided to go with silver Millie instead I would not get any gold millefleur in the pen it would all be silver mille fleur and the silver mille with lavender added. I've seen silver mille fleur projects in several breeds but I have yet to find anyone who has taken their silver mille fleur project on to a lavender silver mille fleur by breeding in lavender. Are you aware of anyone who has bred in lavender to a silver MF project? Of course I'm not certain what that color would even be called when lavender is added to gold mille fleur it's called "porcelain" and if it doesn't have mottling then it's called "Isabella". But both of those colors are gold based with lavender so I'm not certain that if one used silver based Millie instead that the outcome would even be called "porcelain" anymore

I've gotten way off track here- apologies for hijacking the topic

I understand better now. I don't think it would be called porcelain as a color. The only thing I've seen close is the one mottled lavender Orpington I got on accident from Cackle in my order. It would be a beautiful color but not as contrasting as a normal mille.