Cost and colors...

[arherp]

So would a Silver Pied India Blue be more accurate?
And what do they sell for as 2011 hatch?

 

[arherp]

And is a BlackshoulderXIndia Blue considered a mix, as the India BlueXJava is?

 

[deerman]

Yes blue sp. Then u can have peach sp and.etc. same with bs blue bs and peach bs and etc. No
Spalding are the only cross / mixed green and.blue cross.. all those colors r mutation of the indian blue. Except the green same with the patterns.

 

[arherp]

So Black Shoulder is an India Blue mutation?

 

[Arbor]

A pattern mutation first found in Indian blue, but can be found in most/all colours

 

[deerman]

Quote:
Yes and also all the other colors and patterns mutation......now these have been add to the spalding(green xblue)

Another thing about patterns one bird can be more than one.......i have a blue blackshoulder pied white eye peacock, so he shows 3 patterns.

also have a purple blackshoulder silver pied white eye hen, also shows 3 patterns....note different color.

 

[arherp]

So what happens when you breed Black shoulder cock to barred wing hen, and vice versa?

 

[MinxFox]

You get a India blue split to blackshoulder. India blue is the dominant gene.

 

[AquaEyes]

Here is some background information that will help you learn to answer your own questions. If there is anything you don't understand, or if you have further questions, please don't hesitate to ask me (either in here or via PM). I do not have peafowl myself, but I am very familiar with how genetics work.

There are two species of peafowl commonly kept in captivity -- the India Blue and the Green (the green has 3 subspecies, but for this discussion, let's just think of peafowl as "IB" or "Green" species). Breeding the two species together gives a hybrid called Spalding. If a bird has even a dash of the other species, it's technically a hybrid, and should be called a Spalding. This is because the difference between IB and Green is a whole bunch of genes, and even if a bird is only 1/32 IB and the rest Green, it will likely still have some genes that are from the IB ancestor way back that differ from those found in pure Greens.

OK, now back to the IB species. All the variations you find are the result of single mutations, or combinations of those single mutations. A Barred-Wing (wild-type) IB differs from a Black-Shoulder IB by just one gene. They are not different species, or even different breeds, so crossing one with the other isn't a "mix." You'll get IB that have the Barred-Wing trait showing but also carry a copy of the Black-Shoulder gene.

Similarly, the difference between a Bronze and an Opal is just that the Bronze birds have a mutation that changes how the pigment is deposited so that the bird appears shiny brown, while the Opal birds have a different mutation that alters how pigment is deposited so that the bird appears a dull grayish with some blue iridescence. But again, the change is because of just a mutation in each case, so you don't have to worry about "messing up the colors" by breeding the two together. It's just that to show the trait of "Bronze" or "Opal", a bird must have two copies of the same mutation -- one inherited from mom, one inherited from dad. These two mutations are recessive, which means that the trait doesn't show if there is another version of the gene on the other chromosome (that other version is said to be dominant because it is expressed as a trait even if there is only one copy).

If mom and dad have two different mutations, then the offspring can't get two copies of either (instead, they're getting one of each), and will look like a regular IB because on the other chromosome in the same spot is another version of the gene which is dominant -- the "wild version" of the gene in this case is dominant to the "mutation version" of the gene. The only way to get two copies of both mutations is to then breed the offspring together, and look for that 1 in 16 that happens to inherit two copies of both. It's possible, but you'll probably have to go through a bunch of peachicks before you find one.

You'll hear about differences between "colors" and "patterns" but from a genetic standpoint, there is no difference -- the traits are governed by mutations in various genes, and these mutations can be autosomal or sex-linked, dominant (completely or incompletely or co-dominant) or recessive. Some mutations alter the pigment by increasing, decreasing, or changing the structure of the pigment so that it appears a different color. Other mutations disrupt pigment from being expressed at all, and the result is white -- no pigment = white. Think of white as the result of an eraser, and there are three types of "eraser" mutations in peafowl that result in white feathers -- Pied, White, and White-Eyed. They each "erase" in a different way, and if you put all three together, you have a lot of "erasing" going on -- these birds are called "Silver Pied" because they are mostly white with some color showing through in small areas.

It just so happens that in peafowl, these "eraser mutations" are incompletely dominant, meaning that with one copy of the mutation you'll see an effect. Other species may have "eraser mutations" that are recessive, or even sex-linked, or have several versions that have similar effects but are inherited differently. It also just so happens (according to what I'm learning) that Pied and White are different mutations of the same gene. In other words, right now there are three versions of that gene in that exact spot on that chromosome -- the "wild type" that doesn't erase anything, the "Pied" that does some erasing, and the "White" that does more erasing. Peafowl can have two copies of the same version, or any two different versions, but can't have all three versions.

Just as you can put more than one "eraser" mutation together, you can put any other set of mutations together (despite what you'll hear here from others...people have been doing it with other species for a very long time, and the rules of genetics apply to peafowl just the same). If you know how to use a Punnett Square for predicting offspring, understand how autosomal and sex-linked traits are inherited, and understand the concepts of "recessive" and the different types of "dominance", you can figure out how to do this. It will take some time, because peafowl take a couple of years between generations, but it is possible. There are mutations in some species of parrots that similarly take a few years to reach maturity (many that take longer than peafowl), and yet breeders have succeeded in combining them. It just takes dedication, patience and good record-keeping.

 

[arherp]

Thanks, all of those things are a lot clearer to me now, in theory.
But a couple things:
When you cross black shoulder to wild type, I hear that the wild type that will result will not have as clear of barring as the original, uncrossed bird did.
Also, as far as other birds like call ducks go, recessive whiteXPastel color results in faded pastels het white. Crosses in peas dont fade any colors?