Could this be Marek's?

[Clucking_Crazy]

I have a 15 week old BO pullet that is acting 'off'. I have done a ton of searching around on here about Mareks. I need opinions on if this is indeed Mareks disease, and if so, how to proceed/treat from here.

Symptoms: Peachy, the BO, is still eating and drinking. Still able to go in and out of the coop. But when she stands her legs look shakey. I have noticed that her back toes, which seem to normally stay on the ground for stability, stay raised off the ground and fluctuate up and down. If and when the back toes touch the ground her three front toes flare out and she goes slightly off balance. Usually opens a wing slightly for a second until she regains her balance. Also, the two front toes that point towards each other seem to also be bent oddly at the knuckle in an unnatural way. (I tried to get a pic of the toes but it doesn't show it real well). I examined the feet yesterday evening and there is nothing obviously wrong that I can see.

As I mentioned, I have now spent hours digging through previous Marek's threads. The recommended treatments vary, pretty wildly, and it's got my brain going mushy.

I know if this is indeed Marek's, then there is no cure, and the rest of my flock has now been exposed. My husband looks at the same bird and thinks I'm being silly. However I've watched these birds for 3 months now and I know something is up! Any advise and/or help is welcome and appreciated! Thank you!

Above: Peachy's toes, bent toes more obvious in person.

Peachy is on the right. She still ran up to me when I walked up to run. Still bright eyed.

The assortment of vitamins/supplements I ran out and got after reading all those threads. I don't want to use any of it though unless I get fresh advice stating that it will help, or at least not hurt, with dosage information. (Fyi- I did mix up a batch of Sav-A-Chick last night and put it in the waterer. I do not have nutri-drench. I have not seen it at my local RK.)

 

[EggSighted4Life]

It doesn't look like any Marek's I've seen... unless you are noticing WAY earlier than most people.

If you think something is off... I agree you are correct, You know your birds.

What are you feeding including treats?

I wouldn't do the sav a chick stuff for too many days in a row. Definitely NOT longer than 10 days.

What poultry nutri drench has that others don't is amino acids. You can order it on Amazon should you decide you wish to use it.

I also wouldn't use that barrage of vitamins unless I had confirmation it would actually help. Most water soluble vitamins cannot over dose but fat soluble (like E) and minerals can. Though if I suspected an E deficit, I would dose with it.

Diets rich in selenium can hide many other deficiencies... or stop them from rearing their ugly heads.

If a formulated ration is fed and NOT diminished TOO far with low nutrient snacks like scratch, than any deficit would be genetic... and I breed so will fix it by culling... IF I know there isn't an excess internal worm/cocci load caused by my environment. And also if I have checked and ruled out external parasites already.

Hope your pullet is actually OK and just keeping you on your toes!

 

[Clucking_Crazy]

Hmm.... okay, so I will check for external parasites. And then do I need to try for a fecal float, even if the poo is looking normal?

 

[Clucking_Crazy]

And this was just first offering of Sav-A-Chick.

I have them on an 18% All-Flock feed. No one is laying yet, so have not put out any OS. No scratch, and treats are very very rare. Two nights ago I gave them just a few tidbits of steamed brocolli right after we finished eating. It was fresh and didn't equate to more than a morsel or two per bird.

 

[Clucking_Crazy]

Something I did just think of though. I have been seeing some fresh mouse droppings in a shed near the coop and run. While they would not be able to get into the coop while it is locked up, it is possible for them to get into the run.

Food is kept in coop for 24/7 access, and I do put a little out in two separate bowls in the run during the day. I make sure to empty anything in the bowls each night. However, if the girls scratch out a few pieces here and there I don't go searching for those to clean up.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Sounds like you are pretty good.

A fecal float is a good idea since only large round worms can be seen in droppings. It isn't what I suspect per say, but always worth mentioning. Awesome that you didn't even ask "should I worm", right away! You asked if you should get a fecal. That's the right kind of attitude... not treating for what you don't have and making sure you treat for the right thing if you choose to. Your birds are in good hands.

See if this tool helps you at all... http://www.poultrydvm.com/views/symptoms.php

@Wyorp Rock do you have any ideas here?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Can you post a video of her doing the shaking/tippy toed actions?

@rebrascora and @Nambroth are much more knowledgeable about Marek's than I am.

I do see the crooked toes - it looks pretty much the same on both feet. Crooked toes are usually due to a genetic defect or from problems during incubation. The tippy toed walking/standing an leg trembling could be due to genetics, neurological disorder or disease like Marek's. It would be hard to know without more symptoms.

I would be hesitant to recommend giving all those vitamins without having more information - you would want to do more research and try to figure out what's going on with her.

B vitamins are water soluble and the excess is excreted in the urine, so you could try those - use a B-Complex (no iron) not just B-12 or look into Rooster Booster Poultry Cell which has a wide vitamin/mineral solution that is formulated for chickens - dosing is on the bottle.

If you have not read this ARTICLE by Nambroth, you may want to do so - it contains a wealth of information.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Clucking_Crazy]

Thanks for your input! I just grabbed a bunch of vitamins based on about 30 different articles I read, all recommending one or another, or a combo of several. I have not cracked the seal on any of them though, lol. I do think I recall seeing Rooster Booster at the store, may have to try and get that.

A video, I will attempt to see if I can do that. I don't have a YouTube account or anything, so that may take me awhile!

And I will read the article, thank you!

 

[hwar]

Chiming in because my 8-week-old Buff Orp has exactly the same symptoms. I noticed the tippy-toe rocking/balance problems a few days ago. It got progressively worse over the first 24 hours until she basically couldn't stand and was lethargic, so I separated her so she could rest and not get stepped on. Gave a dose of vit E and B complex, Nutri-Drench, offered water/feed with poultry vitamins that include B vites, too. The next morning, she could bear weight on her legs and seemed alert/happy, but still didn't have good balance.

She's had a couple days in the house now. She hasn't gotten worse since that initial partial recovery, but she hasn't gotten better, either. She seems lively and curious, and she can stand and walk, but often loses balance and staggers or flaps to regain it. Poop seems normal. I hope with some patience and continued supplementation, she will recover.

A couple weeks ago, I had a younger chick (with crooked toes) with a vitamin deficiency that caused wry neck. Fixed with E/B supplementation, but it took a week to see results...I thought it was genetic with that one, but now I suspect poor feed quality and/or the amprolium in the medicated feed may have contributed to a thiamine deficiency in all my chickens. As soon as my Buff Orp started showing leg weakness, I went and got fresh, unmedicated starter/grower feed. Maybe worth checking the date on your feed in case it has been a few months since it was manufactured?

Good luck. Would love to hear what you try and whether you have results.

 

[Clucking_Crazy]

Here is a short video of her walking. You can see her go off balance a couple of times... I can only notice shakey legs for a second or two.

This is something new Peachy did after I recorded the first video. She did it about 10-12 times and then stopped. Had not noticed her doing it before:

And here is her latest, most freshest poop!