Could this be Marek's?

[Wyorp Rock]

The walking is something I've never seen before, hopefully the others will chime in soon.

The second video could be adjusting the crop, possibly a yawn. I'm not sure if @rebrascora has a better idea on that. I would check Peachy's crop to see that it has emptied by morning.

 

[micstrachan]

Poor thing. Agree 100% something is off. It’s almost like her feet aren’t functioning properly at the joints... like she can’t push off with her toes or something and that’s why she’s off balance. I wonder if there is any way to strengthen her toes. If it’s just that minor physical handicap, I think she can still live a good life. Anyone else besides me think it looks more physical than neurological? On the other hand, the tremor or whatever it is looksmore neurological. I’m kinda stumped.

 

[Clucking_Crazy]

Poor thing. Agree 100% something is off. It’s almost like her feet aren’t functioning properly at the joints... like she can’t push off with her toes or something and that’s why she’s off balance. I wonder if there is any way to strengthen her toes. If it’s just that minor physical handicap, I think she can still live a good life. Anyone else besides me think it looks more physical than neurological? On the other hand, the tremor or whatever it is looksmore neurological. I’m kinda stumped.

Yeah, it looks like she has deformed toes. In addition to whatever else is up with her legs. But this came on rather suddenly. She was 100% normal in the toe/leg/walking categories.

 

[rebrascora]

My gut feeling is that it is Marek's I'm afraid. The neurological symptoms can vary enormously with this disease and affect individual muscles/tendons in very minor ways. For instance Marek's can cause them to have difficulty keeping one eyelid open. They often can open it if they really need to but it fails to remain open as it should without conscious effort. The bent toes again, can be caused by contortion from muscle spasm just like wry neck or wry tail which are more common symptoms of Marek's paralysis. Yawning or open mouth gaping is often an indication of respiratory issues which are common with Marek's, so the combination of neurological and possible respiratory along with the juvenile age of the bird and the sudden onset all point heavily towards Marek's. You might want to check the eyes for any ocular signs although I've not had any ocular symptoms in any of my Marek's birds, it can help to lend weight to the diagnosis if you see them.

I've tried a few of the suggested treatments like St John's Wort and turmeric and black pepper, but I find that they sicken of their food being doctored after a while and keeping them happy and stress free and eating enthusiastically is key if they are to recover from an outbreak in my experience, so all I do is give them a palatable broad spectrum supplement (here in the UK we have Nutri Drops which I don't think it is identical to Nutri Drench in the USA but similar.... I'm not sure about the other US options like Poultry Cell or Rooster Booster, but imagine they will be much the same). This helps to support the immune system to fight the disease and probiotics or fermented feed to support the digestive system. Scrambled egg a couple of times a week and access to grass if at all possible in a safe environment like a large cage.

As you are aware, if it is Marek's the others were most likely exposed to the virus at the same time as this bird. It then has an apparent dormant phase of at least 3 weeks before an outbreak can occur but it can be longer than 3 weeks. Outbreaks are triggered by stress, and what triggers one bird may not trigger another so not all birds will suffer an outbreak at the same time. During an outbreak they are actively shedding the virus though so some people feel that isolation or culling is relevant to prevent further or more dense exposure to the virus. I personally keep them as much part of the flock as is possible because isolation often stresses them and stress means they are less likely to beat an outbreak. The ones I have had that recovered from outbreaks were kept on grass in the sunshine whenever possible within sight of the flock.
Once they lose interest in food, I euthanize them because in my experience, they have lost the battle with the disease at that stage and it is only a question of time after that. If they are still bright eyed and keen for food than there is hope they can survive that outbreak and I have had some incredibly dramatic recoveries from severe disability from it, but they will always carry the disease and be prone to further outbreaks in the future, which could be weeks, months or even years hence.

Only you as the flock owner/manager can make the decision as to the appropriate course of action which is best for your birds either as individuals or the group as a whole.
Do be aware that the flock could suddenly turn on your bird that is showing symptoms.

 

[micstrachan]

Wow, I had an unsent post saying I was now leaning toward Marek’s, but @rebrascora is way more experienced & knowledgeable than I am, so now I suspect it stronger yet. I still need to learn more about it.
So if this is an outbreak, she could possibly get through it and have her symptoms go away completely? I understand that symptoms (same or different) could return, especially after another trigger.

 

[rebrascora]

@micstrachan
Yes, the symptoms can completely disappear almost as quickly as they came on but the longer an outbreak lasts, the less likely that is. Birds can also make partial but not full recovery and I have had birds that were pretty much nest bound with Marek's paralysis for weeks or months eventually free range with the flock but never regain full use of the gammy leg and retain a hobbling action when walking or learn to hold the leg up and hop everywhere....the latter only really possible with lighter weight birds like leghorns or their crosses. Of course some do not recover and the yawning/gaping with this bird is concerning because respiratory problems can be due to the development of tumours or secondary infections with Marek's and those are often more likely to be terminal than the neurological/paralysis phase of the disease.

 

[Clucking_Crazy]

Thank you rebrascora for sharing your knowledge with me! I understand all of your advice and the points you make. I know I have a choice to make regarding treating and waiting to see if she improves or further declines. I do have a follow-up question though, in regards to the possible respiratory infection.

If its tumors causing respiratory interference or depression, I am going to assume that part is not overtly contagious. (The Marek's is contagious yes, but the signs and symptoms of each bird will be different between individuals). But if it is a true respiratory infection, that could spread to other birds... which will potentially stress them out, and could potentially bring on more Marek's stricken birds. Right?

So the way I am interpreting my situation is as follows:
- There is no harm in treating the bird at this point to see if she improves as the rest of the flock is already exposed, further decline will likely result in the need to cull.
- However, any signs of acute respiratory illness may need to be dealt with by culling sooner rather than later.

Please correct me if my thinking is off!

 

[rebrascora]

There is no harm in treating the bird at this point to see if she improves as the rest of the flock is already exposed, further decline will likely result in the need to cull.
- However, any signs of acute respiratory illness may need to be dealt with by culling sooner rather than later.

I would say that is probably an accurate assessment of the situation. Tumours themselves are not contagious. If your symptomatic bird has a respiratory infection or disease then the chances are it is latent within your flock anyway but that sick bird can become a reservoir for that infection or virus.

Because the Marek's virus starts in the lungs (infected dander dust is inhaled to spread the disease to new hosts) the lungs are most vulnerable, so respiratory issues are often fatal. That said the gaping/yawning you saw may not be related to the respiratory system and could be due to some issue with the crop or oesophagus
which could also be potentially affected by the paralysis phase since the whole body including those parts is controlled by nerve and muscle impulses. If Marek's can cause an eye to dilate, it could also cause the crop or oesophagus to contract and create a partial blockage.

 

[micstrachan]

@rebrascora thank you for sharing your knowledge. @Clucking_Crazy I wish you and your flock the best.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Yes, I have never seen that before. Great job getting the videos!

Completely agree that not all birds will present the same way, and it could be Marek's.

The neck thing looks the same as any of my birds who burp. They especially did it a lot when they were eating fermented feed. Is it going constant or was it just a few times?

It might be a little early for you to consider... but I hope that if it gets worse you might consider getting a necropsy. Some links to help with that...

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-to-send-a-bird-for-a-necropsy-pictures.799747/

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

For me... I don't care about not stressing a bird with suspected Marek's. They would be segregated immediately (if not culled)... because, yes... while all may have been exposed SOME... to me there is a difference between a little exposure and a constant load being added.

It's like the difference between shaking a persons hand with the flu verses sleeping on a pillow next to them and constantly breathing the virus in... Pass for me.

Now I wish I had done a necropsy the time I THINK I saw Marek's in two separate chicks 3 weeks apart, since it hasn't YET presented again... and I guarantee my stags are kinda stressed with all the raging hormones in my stag pen. There is a pecking order for sure and we all know stuff runs down hill. And all my grow outs are subjected to whatever the older ladies can dish. In addition to many having gone through molt since then. Maybe it was something else... or maybe I have just been lucky so far and it wasn't a very virulent. I don't feel let of the hook either way. I know it can resurface at any time.

I am sorry you are going through this. Thank you for sharing your journey with us... it's the only way we can learn.

There is a test for live birds if interested...

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/mareks-testing-in-living-birds.1206105/

With a cheaper location that seems easier to collect a sample for...

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/mareks-testing-in-living-birds.1206105/page-3

Hope she recovers!