Couple questions.......

[Caveman420]

We have opened up the inner enclosure and allowed the two little fire orphans to mingle with the big girls. I have seen some moves that appear more bullying than attacking. The little ones do seem skiddish and are quick to move on. There is a short clip I will try to attach as an example. I have heard of 'pecking order' and hope that I am correct that what I am witnessing is that. I also see the older ones pecking each other from time to time. I am assuming that were I seeing a large one flying spurs first towards a young one and bloody feathers flying would be a bad scene.

Also, I can not find a good source to allow us a better understanding of how much to feed. There are both grit and oyster shell containers in the run. We are buying organic 'crumbles' I think i remember correctly from the Grange. There is also a plethora of produce cut offs and the like from nearly nightly salads we make for ourselves. Seems as though there is always enthusiasm from all of them whenever we show up to toss sunflower seeds or mealy worms.

Thanking everyone for the assist in this arena. We like the girls and really like the fresh brown cackleberries....

Paul

p.s. i can not figure out how to attack this short video clip.... hitting the 'attach files' opens up a window but the clip is greyed out.

 

[Mrs. K]

If there is no blood, they are working it out. Let them do this as much as possible. From what you describe, I would not interfere.

As to feed, I feed daily. The amount I take down depends on the bowl the night before, if feed is left, I feed a little less, if feed is gone, I feed a little more. I do not like to feed 24/7. I think that rodents start eating a lot of it. Birds do not eat in the dark.

I don't mind carrying food down, gives me some exercise, and makes me check on the birds. If we are going to be gone for a couple of days - then I will set up a continuous feeder. But otherwise, I do daily.

Mrs K

 

[3KillerBs]

I allow free, constant access to their commercial feed and toss the other stuff -- veggie trimmings, meat scraps, etc. -- into the pen as they come available.

Interestingly, no matter how much feed is in the feeder when I add more, even if I'm topping off before a stretch of several days at work/several days of bad weather (the temporary coop location does not allow for cover over the access door and I am not enthusiastic about getting drenched while filling the feeder), they all charge over to start eating.

I can even trigger this by just shaking up the feed without actually adding more.

 

[rosemarythyme]

I have heard of 'pecking order' and hope that I am correct that what I am witnessing is that. I also see the older ones pecking each other from time to time. I am assuming that were I seeing a large one flying spurs first towards a young one and bloody feathers flying would be a bad scene.

Also, I can not find a good source to allow us a better understanding of how much to feed.

p.s. i can not figure out how to attack this short video clip.... hitting the 'attach files' opens up a window but the clip is greyed out.

Sounds like pecking order but video would be nice. Videos need to be posted to a an upload site like youtube, and then linked here. But generally you can expect some bullying of younger birds, and as long as they aren't being harassed to the point where they get injured, or cannot eat, or cannot get in/out of the coop, it's best to let them work it out themselves.

I freely make available dry crumble or pellets all day, chickens for the most part are very good at regulating their feed intake.

 

[Caveman420]

WOW.... and backwards it is also WOW. I am ever so impressed with the replies. Thank you one and all. I feel both better and of course with more questions.

In the 'beginning' of this clucking adventure we tried several different feeder types. The first was one of those trough things with the lids with holes. Day after day we found it upside down with poop in it. I then took a section of rain gutter, seamed the ends and mounted it inside the run. We found it with poop in it. So then we were told to just scatter it on the ground of the run. They do come running and peck. They are also excited at the sound of the rattling of the container.

The run has a wire dome over it that has bounced several birds diving in for 'lunch'. We use a large tarp over it during precipitation to avoid a muddy mess.

SO.... first question, since there is no blood so far should i remove the inner fence enclosure to open up the small run? The little ones do go in from time to time as do the big ones, but come back out for pecking and rolling around in holes they dig.

Second question, ought I refasten the feeding trough up and see if it again gets pooped into?
I witness the little ones scurrying away from their pecking position when a large one moves in. I am hoping that this is a nature form of deference and doesn't mean that they are being bullied.

Third question, when I go up after darkness falls to close the coop door I find the smaller of the new girls crouched in the corner the first handful of nights and last night in a nesting box. My instinct thus far was to scoop her up and place her on a perch next to her sister. There are perches plenty and a new one added low enough for her to get onto. Is there a learning curve that I am not aware of and should I allow her to remain down? My concern it that I read somewhere if they are down and asleep that rodents could chew on their feet.

Thanking you ALL again and again. I feel somewhat dumb and different after these head trauma's have sunk in and taken their toll.

Paul

 

[NatJ]

Third question, when I go up after darkness falls to close the coop door I find the smaller of the new girls crouched in the corner the first handful of nights and last night in a nesting box. My instinct thus far was to scoop her up and place her on a perch next to her sister. There are perches plenty and a new one added low enough for her to get onto. Is there a learning curve that I am not aware of and should I allow her to remain down?

Putting her on a perch is a good plan. At some point, she will probably start putting herself up there.

 

[NatJ]

About the feeder:
I recommend a different style of feeder.

There are some that look like a big tube, with a trough at the bottom. Some are metal, others are plastic. Either can work fine.

You hang it from the ceiling, pour feed into the tube, and some flows out into the trough for the chickens to eat.

Hang it so the edge of the trough is level with the back of your shortest chicken.

Because it swings around, they have more trouble scratching the food out.
Because it's off the floor, they have more trouble pooping in it.
(They will still spill some food with their beaks, and they will still get some poop in it, but both will be much better than before.)

Usual advice--as I see several people already told you--is to have the commercial feed available to the chickens at all times. They are good at eating the right amount.

Links with pictures with the kind of feeder I mean:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/hanging-water-and-food-feeders.626156/#post-8355114
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/harris-farms-chicken-feeder-7-lb?cm_vc=-10005
https://www.amazon.com/Harris-Farms-1000293-Galvanized-Hanging/dp/B006ZUNIR6

 

[Ridgerunner]

We found it with poop in it.

We use all kinds of different things to feed them from. A fairly popular one is one made from PVC pipe somewhat similar to what you did. Chickens poop wherever they are. If food or water is below vent level they are going to get pooped in. So elevate your feeder to their shoulder height. They also like to perch n things, which elevates their vent. So make it so they can't perch up on the feeder or anything above it.

first question, since there is no blood so far should i remove the inner fence enclosure to open up the small run?

What often happens when immature birds invade the personal space of more mature birds is that they get pecked. I think that's what is going on in that video. The immature usually learn pretty quickly to not invade their personal space. But they need room to avoid the others. It doesn't matter that much if the space is in the coop or in the combined coop and run as long as they have access to it.

My definition of a successful integration is that no one gets hurt. Sounds like you are there. When they all mature to a certain point the will merge into a flock. Until ten sub-flocks are pretty normal.

I am hoping that this is a nature form of deference and doesn't mean that they are being bullied.

I'd call it intimidation but it is a normal natural form of bullying. The mature outrank the immature and one way of enforcing those pecking order rights is to keep them away from feed or water. The way for you to manage that is to have widely separated feeding and watering stations.

My concern it that I read somewhere if they are down and asleep that rodents could chew on their feet.

I don't believe that in the least. My broody hens keep their chicks on the coop floor for several weeks before they take them to the roosts. My brooder-raised chicks sleep on the coop floor until they start roosting, again usually several weeks. When you deal with living animals anything is possible so I suppose that could happen, but it never has for me.

My brooder-raised chicks will not sleep on the same roosts as mature hens. That's part of getting pecked if they invade personal space. As long as they are not sleeping in the nests and are sleeping somewhere predator safe I don't care where they sleep. Since yours is sleeping in a nest and the other is roosting and probably not getting beat up by the older hens I'd move it to the roosts next to the other after it is too dark for it to go back to the nest. It should get the message pretty quickly.

 

[rosemarythyme]

SO.... first question, since there is no blood so far should i remove the inner fence enclosure to open up the small run? The little ones do go in from time to time as do the big ones, but come back out for pecking and rolling around in holes they dig.

Second question, ought I refasten the feeding trough up and see if it again gets pooped into?
I witness the little ones scurrying away from their pecking position when a large one moves in. I am hoping that this is a nature form of deference and doesn't mean that they are being bullied.

Third question, when I go up after darkness falls to close the coop door I find the smaller of the new girls crouched in the corner the first handful of nights and last night in a nesting box. My instinct thus far was to scoop her up and place her on a perch next to her sister. There are perches plenty and a new one added low enough for her to get onto. Is there a learning curve that I am not aware of and should I allow her to remain down? My concern it that I read somewhere if they are down and asleep that rodents could chew on their feet.

The video shows normal behavior - yes it's a form of bullying but older birds will put younger ones in their place. Where you'd need to be concerned would be something like a younger bird getting cornered and beaten up, even if it tries to show submission.

I don't know what's in your run space but a little clutter goes a long way especially during integration, by providing hiding places for the younger birds via breaking line of sight. So that's something you might want to add before you fully open up both groups into one space: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/

I've never had an issue with birds pooping in feed. I elevate all my feeders on bricks. If you have a feeder that birds are somehow sitting on top of, them blocking access would help fix that issue. I personally would never scatter their feed on the ground because I have had mold issues and rodent issues, both directly related to feed on the ground.

As far as roosting, I insist that they roost, even if they're young. So yes I would manually place the chick on a roost away from the adults if possible, until she gets the hint.

 

[Caveman420]

I am again floored with the amount and speed of assist. I am going to have to invest in some hanging feeders. I will continue to place the little girl up on a perch at night. I will dismantle the inner 'cage' since it has such a large footprint inside the run and then erect some other obstacles for the younger ones to duck under.

Thanking one and all for the time and detailed information. It makes me feel so good knowing that there is a place to come and ask for help.

Sincerely

paul