Cream Legbar Pictures

Discussion in 'Pictures & Stories of My Chickens' started by sunnydalefarms, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. dretd

    dretd Chillin' With My Peeps

    Apr 14, 2009
    Ft Collins, CO
    Hi Kezza666 and [​IMG]

    It is so hard to assess the quality of a bird from a photograph--especially one where they are not by themselves and posed from the front and side in proper lighting! I actually have mostly stopped commenting on flaws in color for that very reason. I would hate for a bad photo to cause someone else to cull a bird when it wasn't that serious of a problem but rather a lighting issue.

    The folks you are getting scolded from are breeders that have worked hard to breed the best stock they can. In any given year they will probably breed over 100 birds and cull 90% of them becasue they are too flawed to move forward. It gives them a perspective of being overly critical of any birds since they are to their own and also of being very protective of the breed they have worked to hard to breed. Many breeders in the States are the same way and very harsh and critical--yet if you ask them advice they are very friendly and very willing to share their knowledge. I guess I am saying to try to keep things in perspective and try not to take offense.

    Greenfire Farms is a hatchery in the US specializing in importing rare breeds and selling their offspring. As a hatchery they are not engaged in breeding to specific standards but imported the best birds they could and are breeding those birds and selling offspring. They have 4 different lines of Cream Legbars they are breeding and selling. Many of the birds are off-type (they lack crests and are undersized etc) and there are many color issues becasue the original stock was imperfect plus the different strains/lines are now being crossed in tho home flocks which is jumbling up genetics and revealing hidden genes that were stable in the individual strains. I remember one honest Brit came on here and basically said all of the US stock was so deeply flawed that we should scrap all of them and start over with better stack (this was before the Rees line was imported and they are not without flaws, either).

    For the most part, folks are more friendly over here because we realize that everyone's birds are somehow flawed. Most people are trying hard to breed to the Standard, but will sell birds to other people, too. The really bad ones are called Easter Eggers, Easter Leggers or other words to make sure they are not used for breeding. The ones that have serious flaws but not DQ flaws may be termed 'not show quality', 'pet quality', 'off-type', 'gold tinted' 'hatchery quality' etc Cream Legbars. It respects the birds origins but does let the buyer know that the bird may not meet the Standard of Perfection in one or more ways. For me, it seems like the best way to handle it. Honest but not rude.

    It looks like some of your hens are gold (only carry one or no copies of the Cream gene). Cream is a color variety of Legbar, so if you have birds that are gold instead of cream, they do not meet that color variety's standard--which is why you are getting pushback from breeders. I have seen photos of many British CL stock and many males appear to lack the darkly barred breast that is also called for in the standard, but for some reason they are not called out for that flaw.

    If they are good looking other than the gold, they would be welcome in my breeding program since it is a simple flaw to fix. I would rather work with gold and remove it than a mostly red ear, or a very small size for example. If I were selling the birds I would tell the buyers they are from CL stock and that some are gold tinted so that you are up front about everything. The problem is that you appear to be new to Cream Legbars so you don't have the experience to know all of the other flaws in your flock--if they have any. I am willing to bet that your stock is better than the average breeder's here in the US!

    What are your goals with the breed-have a nice backyard flock or are you planning on getting into showing or breeding Cream Legbars?
    2 people like this.
  2. sol2go

    sol2go Chillin' With My Peeps

    Sep 27, 2012
    Coastal California

    Hi to all who have communicated on this topic.

    First of all, thanks to kezza666 for sharing your pictures and a peek into your world.
    I selected some of dretd's comments as a counterpoint to some of the comments made by Jill Rees.

    Anyone can have and breed chickens as they see fit, it's a free country after all?! And America is all about commerce, if it sells, great! I suppose that is more or less similar in the UK. However when a group of people try to agree on something, they need a commonly accepted point of reference.

    The Crested Cream Legbar community in the USA is working on acceptance into the American Poultry Association. Much like those who breed CL's in the UK, it requires predictable results in the offspring. I think the naming protocol is an obvious place to start: crested, cream (not gold), and leg bar (which is synonymous with auto-sexing).

    We are working with a small pool of newly introduced stock and do not have the luxury of long established lines, so as dretd pointed out we are still setting our lines, so to speak. We have come to understand that we are working towards a goal of crested cream legbars, but we aren't there yet and we are still learning what the finer points mean to all of us.

    In turn, the UK stock as the originator of the Crested Cream Legbar should have established predictable lines. Having put all of that effort into being predictable, it makes sense that visual change as simple as not crested or not cream stands out as a disruption to established stock. That is the best light that I can shed on the discussion.
  3. ChicKat

    ChicKat Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

    Hi Sol2Go---


    Not to be too nit-picky-- but while on the subject of correctness and using correct references, the 'crested' has been dropped out of the breed's name some years ago.

    This is also problematic - because when people refer to a Crested Cream Legbar it implies that there is a non-Crested one - which thee isn't. However, the Gold and Silver are both non-crested. HTH
  4. enola

    enola Overrun With Chickens

    So just so I am on the same page as everyone else..... just what is the legbar going to be called when the SOP is finally written?
  5. KPenley

    KPenley Chillin' With My Peeps

    Sep 19, 2012
    Anderson, SC

    Breed: Legbar
    Variety: Cream
  6. Sylvester017

    Sylvester017 Overrun With Chickens

    Nov 29, 2012
    So. Calif.
  7. chicken pickin

    chicken pickin Overrun With Chickens

    Mar 3, 2012
    Yes I'm quoting myself lol.
    I just wanted to say after reading all the other great posts responding to Kezza666 that my post wasn't well thought out when I started typing. I should often put more thought into a post before responding and also be less quick when deciding to call birds gold as I forget that pics do often lie so we can't be sure. My feelings do still hold true about eliminating gold birds from breeding programs(as well as other flaws) but this comment is only a current thought to my specific flock and the direction I'm heading with mine. Others may still need to work with gold to a point.

    In one of my previous posts I mentioned that many of us are working with flawed birds and that's ok because some flaws can be worked on later. Even flawed birds can give you offspring valuable to your program.

    I just didn't wan't to leave off with my last quote and be thought to have given you the impression your birds were "gold" and not good for breeding when I don't truly know that. I hope I didn't come across wrong.
    1 person likes this.
  8. kezza666

    kezza666 Out Of The Brooder

    Aug 27, 2014
    Here are some better pics of my babies [​IMG] [​IMG]
  9. dretd

    dretd Chillin' With My Peeps

    Apr 14, 2009
    Ft Collins, CO
    Hi Kezza, Thank you for posting pictures of your babies, They are very sweet. I love how the little boy is front and center watching over the girls and the girls are very sweet playing peek-a-boo in the Euphorbia!

    For me, they are so young I would not feel comfortable commenting on their color or other trait. Sorry! But I wanted to acknowledge their cuteness and how lovely they are!
  10. DoubleMM

    DoubleMM Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 29, 2014


    Been having trouble uploading...

    the boys

    Girls won't load
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014

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