Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[nicalandia]

Quote:
I didnt understand your wording.... but know I do,

 

[DeltaBluezTess]

Three of my hens. Born in summer. From Greenfire

 

[WHmarans]

Three of my hens. Born in summer. From Greenfire

I think those look very nice. It might just be hard to tell from the pictures but they also look nice and big even though they are still young.

 

[HaplessRunner]

Three of my hens. Born in summer. From Greenfire

I,like these pullets. They are closer to what I would expect for color. Picture number two looks really good.

 

[dretd]

Quote:
This is one area that I think should be looked and and clarified in the proposed SOP. We are trying to match, as best possible the intent of Punnett.

As a refresher, here is a link to the paper written regarding the Cream research Punnett conducted: http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jgenet/48/327.pdf

And here is an excerpt for the Cream as expressed in the Light Brown Leghorn experiments:
"The hen closely resembles a silver grey, though close inspection shows that the general tint is just a shade warmer though less warm than the Brown Leghorn and the neck hackles are straw tinged. In the cock, however, with his more abundant hackles, the distinction is far more obvious. FOr the white edging of these feathers in place of hte normal gold brings about a very different appearance..."

The way I read this is that the term warm refers to brown as he states the Brown leghorn is warmer than the Cream which is warmer than straight silver-grey. Many of the female Cream Legbars I see I would call a taupy-grey which I think could also be described as a warm grey. I also some females I would describe as silvery grey. I think (and would love to see other people's thoughts) that the ones that are more taupy-grey have a more correct full salmon breast, where the silvery grey ones have a paler more washed-put salmon breast.

I am reading that Punnett is saying that the warmer grey is correct. How do you all interpret this?

Further, he is also saying that upon close inspection the hackles in the females are more of a pale straw rather than the white that you see in cocks and that there is more of an obvious difference between gold (non-ig/ig) and cream (ig/ig) in the females than the males. I suspect one could say that it is easy to distinguish gold from cream in males but not in females and I wonder then if the previously quoted statements about adding a crest to distinguish cream from silver was really a statement about the cock--hard to tell cream from silver in the cock, but it it would be easier in the female as she appropriately
has a pale straw color hackle and not a silver hackle. Once again showing the inherent difference between the male and female and how they express cream and that the standard was written to reflect this natural difference--no double mating required.

Here is another excerpt:
'Of the cream F2 birds reared to maturity the darkest of the pullets closely approached the general coloration of the Brown leghorn (f). These were all striped in the brown down"

To me this says that cream (ig/ig) females can be a fairly warm (brown) color.

Please Discuss.
eta--sorry its so strung out, the editor will not let me close the gaps in the text

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:


yes , Gorgeous birds... But Brown barred is not even Mention on the SOP... so no, Grey Barred is the standard





This is one area that I think should be looked and and clarified in the proposed SOP. We are trying to match, as best possible the intent of Punnett.





As a refresher, here is a link to the paper written regarding the Cream research Punnett conducted: http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jgenet/48/327.pdf





And here is an excerpt for the Cream as expressed in the Light Brown Leghorn experiments:




"The hen closely resembles a silver grey, though close inspection shows that the general tint is just a shade warmer though less warm than the Brown Leghorn and the neck hackles are straw tinged. In the cock, however, with his more abundant hackles, the distinction is far more obvious. FOr the white edging of these feathers in place of hte normal gold brings about a very different appearance..."





The way I read this is that the term warm refers to brown as he states the Brown leghorn is warmer than the Cream which is warmer than straight silver-grey.
To me this says that cream (ig/ig) females can be a fairly warm (brown) color.





Please Discuss.

As I said... there is No mention of Warm Grey in the SOP, I think you are over reaching on your term Warm, its going to be difficult to change the wording on the SOP from Grey to Brown(Warm)

 

[dretd]

As I said... there is No mention of Warm Grey in the SOP, I think you are over reaching on your term Warm, its going to be difficult to change the wording on the SOP from Grey to Brown(Warm)

I did not say that the color should be changed from grey to brown, Punnett did not say they are brown but rather a warmer grey than silver grey.

It may be wise to consider adding a qualifier to the SOP to the grey or silver-grey color and qualify the grey as a warm-grey, as Punnett described it in his paper. Just as there are interpretations of the color blue, grey is a pretty broad color. I suspect that some breeders will breed to a cold silver-grey and cull for a warm (taupe-y) grey. I think that this may put the salmon breast color at risk and we will see more very pale washed-out salmon breasts.

What do you think about the salmon breast description as needing to be a "salmon, well defined in outline" appearing more washed out and less distinct than the standard calls for, especially in the less colorful cold silver-grey hens?

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
its a balancing act, ig/ig and B/- will dilute a light brown hens salmon breasts, too much dilution and few red enhancers will give you paler salmon breasts, a Rich colored salmon breast hens will give you rich colored roosters...... on this link http://blue-eggs.co.uk/#/photos-of-cream-legbar/4554699814 the owner has very diluted birds(ig/ig B/- no red enhancers) and the females show pale salmon, just like silver duckwing pullets... oh and the Body of the Hens going by the SOP calls for Silver Grey, How to interpret Silver Grey?

 

[enola]

I am soooooo confused. I need to see some hens in person

 

[WHmarans]

I am soooooo confused. I need to see some hens in person

Awesome discussion I'm just curious where it will end up. Don't know enough to have an opinion but excited I can at least follow most of it. Seeing hens in person helps you interperate photos definitely.