Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[GaryDean26]

I think these three boys will be fed for awhile until I can see more of how they fill in/out, temperament etc... this is my first attempt at breeding so culling will be a loooooong process until I feel confident.

Yep...when you are trying to do everything right and comparing between different birds in the grow out group feels like splitting hair the decision is really hard. Some years after I choose the keeper they look 100 times better knowing that for better or worse they are who I am going to be working with for the next year. When that happens I know I have made the right choice. Other times I have the buyer remorse and want to go back and undo things. Those years are not the end of the world. I keep 50% of the breeding flock (the best ones) and rotate out the other 50% (the ones that I had buyers remorse with) each year to make room for the currents year's grow out group. So if the new group isn't great I still have my best stock to work with the following year aa well as being able to test drive the new generation for a year to see what they are made of before culling down to the best 50% of all the flock for the next year. As long as you are learning as you go your flock will improve. Some birds may only stay in the breeding flock one year others may be their for 5 or more years. I never cull older birds unless younger birds are better than the older ones. The older ones tend to stay for a long time so I don't have to know everything about them at 6 months old. I can watch them through multiple years and watch their offspring etc.

 

[rottlady]

With this breed given I don’t show (so my priorities may be different than yours) my priorities I will cull for are
Autosexing -chicks must be super clearly sexable
Crest
Temperament-friendly easy to deal with birds. Not flighty or aggressive
Egg production- at least 5 a week
Egg color- the bluer the better. Mint green is an automatic cull
Egg size- 2 year old + hen egg over 55 grams
Body shape- I don’t want racy looking birds I want Roos to have good chests and girls to be nice width

Nit picky stuff that is only culled for after the abovelist
Roosters with lots of chestnut
Wing carriage
Want good barring on Roo chests

Etc etc

 

[GaryDean26]

My cull list changes about every 6 month because

1) I keep learning things that I didn't know before,
2) Every pairing produces something a little different and I focus on culling for the problem that the highest percentage of the grow out group have while passing on things that only 1-2 birds in the group have because they are more easy to compensate for when paired to other birds,
3) New faults show up that were not a problem before

After looking at the Back and the Tail the next point that I look at when evaluating birds is the breast.

Shape—Male
Breast: Prominent, well-rounded, carried forward and upright.
http://creamlegbarclub.com/breed-1/
Shape—Female
Breast: Prominent, well-rounded, carried forward and upright.

As you can see the description is identical for the male and the female.

I hope you guys aren't getting tired of my example images. The first one I picked as the best example (I will explain why unless you guys can make my point for me first). The 2nd one is the next best and the last two are both culls for different reasons (I will explain those too unless you guy can first).

 

[ReLova]

Taking a stab:

4th: Is is because of the split breast? Does it come from the feathers or the actual breast?

3rd: That hen has a straight angle on the bottom of her breast with maybe even a little dip inwards like there's not enough meat?

2nd the breast is rounded but still a little angle. This one looks like the breast is carried lower than full and upright.

1st: Much rounder with the bulk of the curve a little higher than 2.

 

[GaryDean26]

ReLova,

Yes...you are are looking at the same things as I am on these birds.

Yes, the 4th has the split breast which is correct for some breeds but not what the "well rounded" description calls for and wrong for the legbar. No split breast for Legbars. Well rounded breast do not show any type of split or separation.

The 3rd one shows straight lines on the breast and the slight dip. Again this is not what a well rounded breast describes. You should a continual curve from the head down to the keel bone. Straight lines are no good and slight dips are really bad.

The 2nd one was thrown in because it shows a well rounded breast but it doesn't meet my vertical line test for a "prominent" and "carried forward" breast. If you draw a vertical line from the tip of the beak of the bird to the ground the breast should extend past the line. If it doesn't then it doesn't meet the "Prominent" requirement in my book.

I didn't put any images in to show difference between upright breast and other types.

I think it would be safe to say that this one is too high. From the head this one actually has a rise to it. We want curve to always be moving downward.

I am not as confident about this one with regards to being wrong for the upright breast description. It just seems that the breast almost is tucked to the underside in the horizontal position rather than being in front in a vertical upright position. It may still be vertical.

You will see breeds with the bulk of the mass of the breast up as the shoulder level and others with the bulk of the mass down at knee level. Both of those would be wrong. The bulk of the mass should be in the middle of the shoulders and the keel.

 

[ReLova]

Trying to apply what I'm learning to my birds:

Would this be an example, (best of the pictures I have on my phone at the moment) ignoring the other faults, of full well rounded? No splits, nice curve

It looks like she juuuust passes (or maybe fails?. If her head was held straighter its be better) the vertical line test for prominent. The bulk is carried right in the middle between her shoulders and bottom of her wings (is that the target zone for upright without crossing over into stripper boobs zone?)

 

[GaryDean26]

Trying to apply what I'm learning to my birds:

Would this be an example, (best of the pictures I have on my phone at the moment) ignoring the other faults, of full well rounded? No splits, nice

Yes...That hen has the ideal breast for the Legbar SOP. Great example. I love the curve on that breast. The breast looks very full. I am sure it meets the requirement for prominent. Note: I also have heard old timers call a prominent breast a "Proud" breast.

 

[GaryDean26]

Okay...we are almost done with a basis evaluations. I look at the back, then tail, then the breast, then the Head (including the comb, beak, face, etc). Yes their are a lot of other areas that are in the SOP but I have found that using those four is usually enough to pick the best bird out of a group. I am not going to post any photos yet. If any of you want to that would be fine. I will go through each point and detail what I look for with the head.

Shape—Male
Comb: Single; large, fine in texture, straight and upright, deeply and evenly serrated with six distinct points, extending well over the back of the head and following, without touching, the line of the head, free from side sprigs, thumb-marks or twists.
Beak: Stout, point clear of the front of the comb, slightly curved.
Face: Smooth, skin fine in texture.
Eyes: Large, bright, and prominent. Round in appearance.
Wattles: Moderately long, thin, uniform in size, well rounded, free from folds or wrinkles. Skin soft.
Ear-lobes: Large, elongated oval, pendant, smooth and free from folds, equally matched in size and shape.
Crest: Small, well back from the eyes with narrow feathers falling off the back of the head to below the blade of the comb.
Head: Medium size, symmetrical, well balanced, and of fine quality.

Shape—Female
Comb: Single; large, fine in texture, erect or first point to stand erect and the remainder of the comb dropping gracefully to the side without obscuring the eyes, deeply and evenly serrated having six distinct points.
Beak: Stout, point clear of the front of the comb, slightly curved.
Face: Smooth, skin fine in texture.
Eyes: Large, bright, and prominent. Round in appearance.
Wattles: Medium in length, thin, uniform in size, well-rounded, free from folds or wrinkles. Skin soft.
Ear-lobes: Medium, elongated oval, pendant, smooth and free from folds, equally matched in size and shape.
Crest: Medium, rising well in front so as not to obstruct the eyes, with feathers narrow and falling off the back of the head to below the blade of the comb.
Head: Medium size, symmetrical, well balanced, and of fine quality.

 

[Bantambird]

this is one of my favorite hens, Lorelei, she's 5 now but I love how she carries herself, her crest, and her shape. Her wattles are terrible, and she doesn't have very white earlobes any more. Her comb doesn't stand up and then fall to the side.

 

[GaryDean26]

View attachment 1456864 .... she doesn't have very white earlobes any more....

Yes at 6 months all of my birds could have solid white ear lobes but by 12 months old 80 of them could have more than 50% of there ear lobes showing white through it. Ear lobes are one of those things that I have trying to improve for 2-3 years. I have one line that keeps the white ear lobes better past 6 months old. That line has other faults that I would like to cull out though so working with them has set us back in other areas.