Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[ChicKat]

ChicKat, do you think you could post Ice and go through the first 1-15 lines. Anyone else available to comment on standards and what they say and how clear they are? All help, helps!

Yes...I will be back with a picture of him full length if I have a good one--- else I will get one tomorrow after some meetings I have in the morning. :O)

 

[redchicken9]

ChicKat, Are you up for logo and mission statements? It's something fun and needed! Sounds like Blackbirds13 could try a hand with a logo. It be great if there was a prototype or two to show off! I have a lot of hmm on the database. How do others feel about this?

See, I'm away for a day---and look at all that happens. There are a lot of dynamics going on here.

An expert suggestion was made to me that the new club that would be formed would be called the American Cream Legbar Club. Short, sweet and to the point.

I also cut and pasted this from the Ameraucana Breeders Club, it is their LOGO and thier - mission statement if you will:

The purpose of the Ameraucana Breeders Club is to encourage the continued improvement of Ameraucana bantams and large fowl through breeding, exhibition, and dissemination of relevant information.


I want to know why in the heck we are going to do this and what we intend to accomplish. Thus a statement of purpose to be the star that we will navigate by, as we come to the concerns and cross roads that will arise.

So-- I want to volunteer to work with the others in this group that are interested in this part of it to target completing a mission statement and working logo within the next week. Again as prototype, for the working group.

I agree so much that the function that the breed was designed for should not be LOST so that pretty feathering will result. Breed improvement - once we would get recognition and establish what constitutes a cream legbar in the USA - would be good basics....

As far as working logo, I think that a photo of a cream legbar family that is digitally changed to a more logo like format would get us started.

Also thinking that we could/should possibly 'standardize' the workgroup with google docs, since it is pretty readily available and...free, and -- they also have things like circles where those working on a portion of the activity could have a real-time virtual meeting. We may need to sharpen up our computer skills a bit.

I think I am leaning toward following the Ameraucana club, maybe because they have the blue egg gene. I think that any info from the Marans or any other club would be equally valuable.

Also I would like to work with Redchicken9, GaryDean and a couple of others who have interest in this to tighten up the checklist of what needs to be accomplished/done. I know Walt (thank you Walt) has made priceless suggestions that we will be working toward in the next 5-years as well.

Last thought - (from my days as a project manager) for our success we need to make sure that we keep the scope under control and don't get that dreaded 'scope creep' to come in and make the thing larger than we need for our goals of 1. Establishing a poultry club for the people who raise cream legbars 2. See if we become positioned to take up Greenfire Farms generous offer to help us establish a registry for our birds based upon their model. 3. Put some structure in place early in the lifespan of Cream Legbars in the USA so that we do have a registry now when there are few birds, rather than in 5-10 years when the task of tracing breeding backgrounds would be much more difficult and error prone.

Quote:

 

[Laingcroft]

I think egg color could have some give in the range of blues that are acceptable, and I'd rather not re-invent the wheel if there is a good color chart we could adopt. I’m for not including olive eggs as I agree that could include and help eliminate mixed birds.

I am not a fan of creating a 'variety' of cream legbars at this point - i.e. Gold, Silver, Cream, production, show, etc. I think we should be striving towards one ‘simple’ common goal and deviate personally but collectively stick to one ideal.

Do we strive for a more true Cream which is my preference or attempt to include these variances we have in the US? I don't think many of the birds we have, mine included meet the ideal if you reference the UK SOP. I am interested to see how much deviation there is between what 'we' have and what the SOP specifically states. I think we are starting from a general standpoint of our birds ‘en masse’ being subpar to what the UK SOP states. In attempting to get the gold out I am wondering if breeding towards one part of the standard (UK or proposed US) may make reaching other stated aspects more difficult or easier to accomplish as we make decisions to accept or alter the standing SOP. The pictures of the Legbars from Avalon, Huckleberry and Jordan Farms are all considered too gold for the UK Standards which allows chestnut on the shoulders but not on the saddle or hackle which all those roosters do have, and some of those Avalon hens have gold hackles another no-no…this is going to be an interesting discussion as we go ahead. I’m excited for it. When referencing the standards or proposed standards once they have been broken down we could create a catalog of images under each that help everyone see the comparative differences within, especially when it comes to type and the like.

We don't have to create the Gold or Silver Legbars...they already exist and were developed around the same time as the Cream Legbar. I don't believe we have any of those here unless "our" i.e. too golden, Legbars were not as 'pure' as we would like on import per the U.K. standard. Perhaps the geneticists can chime in here to see how we can get closer to the UK standard with the limited stock we have available to us, or if we will need to outcross to another breed (thinking one of the foundation breeds -- leghorn or barred rock) to get rid of the red. Then we sacrifice "purity" for six or seven generations of breeding back to 100% Cream Legbars. If it can be done without outcrossing then we should breed to the standard until it is consistent; which I think is a requirement for APA acceptance anyway (need confirmation here.) If there isn't a chance of breeding that red out we have to decide if the crele coloration which I'm seeing in all the photos too, is what will be the North American Cream Legbar unless or until more importation is done.

The limited gene pool can be overcome by judicious culling and breeding. It was done with the Cheval Canadien horse and Portugese Water Dog (two critters I am familiar with.) Humans supposedly experienced a genetic bottleneck some 70,000 years ago as have many other species over time. Inbreeding, when done correctly, can actually strengthen positive attributes...the operative word here is correctly.

 

[Laingcroft]

The way I see it there are several things that need to be accomplished and a to-do list would help. Volunteers can then figure out where they want help.

Here's a preliminary that I'm seeing develop:

1. Standard Committee
a. Confirm UK standard as accurate and current
b. Place UK Standard in APA Format
i Americanize/define descriptors like colors, etc.
ii Research and summarize history of breed
c. Draft APA formatted standard and submit to membership for comments period
d. Finalize an APA approvable draft standard incorporating consensus of members
e. Begin standardizing breeding with the goal of APA acceptance based on approved draft standard

2. Club Committee --- can't have a membership without a club
a. Mission statement
b. Bylaws
i officers
ii webmaster and website if there will be one
iii membership
(a) Voting
(b) benefits of membership
(c) newsletter?
(d) dues
-- what will dues support? Registry, website, forums?
c. Club name & logo
i copyright?
d. Legal status of Club if any - Non-profit education?

I can help with club related stuff.

 

[Laingcroft]

And last post before beddy-by (yes, I'm tired.)

I would love some way of tracking the foundation lines, but I believe a database registry of all Cream Legbars would quickly become unwieldy and expensive to maintain. What would be the purpose and use of such a database? With larger, limited offspring livestock like horses, sheep and goats I can see the point, but I'm not sure I see the point with tracking chickens. I track my own animals based on production qualities with details like first egg, latest egg for season, broody, aggressive roo, faults, etc. upon which to base breeding decisions. Not sure what benefit there would be to a chicken registry --- what information would be collected and why?

 

[lonnyandrinda]

HERE is a photo of a nice looking CL rooster with the proper tail angle, as it is not my photo I do not want to just copy and paste but you can follow the link:

http://www.chickens-hampshire.co.uk/

 

[fowlman01]

Dear Walt, ignorance will no longer be bliss for me!

Thanks for the tail information, I suspected as much as 90 degrees!

Where are you in Norcal. I'm in Santa Rosa.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

The way I see it there are several things that need to be accomplished and a to-do list would help. Volunteers can then figure out where they want help.

Here's a preliminary that I'm seeing develop:

1. Standard Committee
a. Confirm UK standard as accurate and current
b. Place UK Standard in APA Format
i Americanize/define descriptors like colors, etc.
ii Research and summarize history of breed
c. Draft APA formatted standard and submit to membership for comments period
d. Finalize an APA approvable draft standard incorporating consensus of members
e. Begin standardizing breeding with the goal of APA acceptance based on approved draft standard

2. Club Committee --- can't have a membership without a club
a. Mission statement
b. Bylaws
i officers
ii webmaster and website if there will be one
iii membership
(a) Voting
(b) benefits of membership
(c) newsletter?
(d) dues
-- what will dues support? Registry, website, forums?
c. Club name & logo
i copyright?
d. Legal status of Club if any - Non-profit education?

I can help with club related stuff.

#1 is a very good plan.

Walt

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Just so everyone is clear I am the one to send your information to in order to be on the list of interested parties/contributors/potential club members. Name, address, phone number, e-mail, source and quantity of stock, and any ways you are willing to help. All information will be kept confidential.

ETA: If you already sent your information to Dahlisgrams, I have it.
And if you don't have stock but want to be included in this project send your info anyway!

Rinda

 

[ChicKat]

Absolutely. I had an inspiration today--- and I'm sure that blackbirds13 can come up with a fabulous design. My art major is undergrad, my Masters -- totally different field (go figure)

We can collaborate, or once a club is formed - then the newly formed club can vote on desired logo from all the folks who want to submit a contender. Just a guideline--wouldn't it be cool to have one as recognizeable as Pepsi, chevrolet, toyota or even ford? :O)

I will work on some wordsmithing for the mission statement too, I do have some experience in Organization Development (my masters degree in that field). Then again once a club is formed that one, among all contenders can be adopted, modified, we can slice and dice from the submissions...etc.

Also I have a picture of Ice from May....I will put it up.... Then this afternoon, I will get one-- He has changed a lot since then... wattles larger, spurs bigger, etc.