Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[ChicKat]

Yes!

x2

 

[ChicKat]

If anybody wants help with breeding regimens or genetics, send me a pm and direct me to the string in a post or send me a pm to discuss things.

Tim

Thank you so much Tim,

This type of expertise will help us so much.

 

[ChicKat]

GaryDean26--

That helps me -- I'm in the vigor category -- and like babymakes6, I'm going to think about color last (but not least).


Health and genetic diversity to the extent that we can develop and promote it, along with being good producers of good eggs, and I'm also going to go for trying to have hens that will go broody---because I feel that they are safer with mama than with a heat source and they learn so much more than the brooder babies.

Now keep those crests and have nice personalities----and of course the correct type -- and then coloration....the result is my perfect bird.

 

[fowlman01]

The most important part of a chicken is the body. Coloration is secondary. When the CL's go for qualifying, the judges will be looking at the body and your description of how it should look well before they look at color.

Walt

 

[blackbirds13]

Are there issues with type and vigor that I am not aware of? I think I just really lucked out with my original 2 pairs that make color a relatively easy issue for me to work into my program right now in a meaningful way. (hope I don't jinx myself)

I keep comb and crest issues in mind as my boy had a flop, but beside tail angle what else is problematic? I know to be aware of eye color - I can thank my Marans for that but what other things are folks finding problematic or in need of improvement?

My girls lay like crazy, though I don't keep records - not enough time for that. I'm thinking about size in both male and female as I have some that are larger and smaller but my flock seems healthy and no lack of vigor.

I'm thinking line breeding and outsourcing to Greenfire next year but I also have an unrelated trio (2M and 1F) of 7 week old chicks that came from Greenfire. I may stick to just no more than 3 breeds as I go forward and maybe even just 2 eventually so I can concentrate on these guys more and really expand what I want to do. I guess I'm going for a painted barn so to speak.

 

[normanack]

I can only go from what I've read, so take this for the less-than-two-cents that it's worth: that chickens have much more genetic diversity within a single bird than, say, dogs, so that chickens can be line-bred (or other plans that don't do outcrossing, described here some posts ago -- I've got to go save that one) for an indefinite time. I'm thinking Fred's Hens has had posts in the Heritage thread to that effect.

 

[Lostsins]

I think I'm out of the Cream Legbar business. :-(

A hawk got my non-gold Cream Legbar pullet today (Christmas. Thanks, hawk.) This is my first chicken loss to a predator. Hawks have already hit four of my chickens, including my Cream Legbar cockerel, but only caused minimal damage those times. I guess it has refined its technique.

Joan was such a nice hen. She was quiet and shy, but had enough gumption not to get picked on. She wasn't a cuddly bird (only one of mine is -- a Silky) but I loved her nonetheless. She was just about ready to lay, getting a redder comb and investigating the nest boxes. Poor baby. :-(

I'm down to one cockerel and one pullet. I love them both dearly, but had been counting on Joan, who was the only one of the three who had good silver (cream) coloring. James is exceedingly colorful, lots of chestnut and red, and has a right-angle comb. I think he's gorgeous, but the standard doesn't agree. Jett, the remaining pullet, is very gold.

I don't think I can manage a breeding program with only two birds and a very determined hawk (and a recession-affected bottom line). That hawk got through fishing line strung at 2-inch intervals across the entire chicken yard. Rats.

Please keep my membership dues for the club. I'll miss you all.

You you be willing to sell me your hen and rooster? I need a new genetic line to go with my cream legbars.

 

[normanack]

You you be willing to sell me your hen and rooster? I need a new genetic line to go with my cream legbars.

I've decided to keep them, sorry.

Where are you located? I might have eggs by spring and chicks not long after, but I don't plan on shipping them.

 

[Dahlisgrams]

Normanack, I am so so so sorry for your loss!!!!

I understand how you feel. I've lost so many... Not to predators but rather unnecessary illness. It's devastating and so disheartening. I hope you get the predator situation under control. Big hugs to you.

 

[Dahlisgrams]

Yes, people HAVE got pretty wrapped up about the coloration (myself included). Breeding plans are pretty much divided into two group;

1) Breeding for Vigor: Which deals with the inbreeding coefficients, general health, hardiness, disease resistance, etc. of the flock
2) Breeding for Type: Which entails the color, shape, size, egg size, egg color, egg production rate, etc. of the flock.

The quickest way to improve type is to breed your hen that is best in that area with your cockerel that is best in that area and cull everything else. It is easy to see how that is also the quickest way to run out of gene pool. So every breeding program has to find a balance between Vigor and Type breeding.

The way the an American Heritage Livestock Association article suggested to do this was to keep multiple breeding lines. Their case study was a Buckeye recover program. In their first season they only had 5 pullets hatch. Instead of culling the least promising pullets they started five breeding lines. When evaluating for breeder they only compared birds with other birds from the same line. One line could have been across the board better than the other four, but instead of taking all their breeders from that line, they would selected breeders from all the breeding lines and focused on improving every line every year. They said that it is often tempting to take shortcuts and just focus on the best line or best breeding pair, but that in the long run improving the whole flock is the best plan for sustainable flocks.

The best plan for vigor is probably the one called out-and-out breeding. That is bringing in an unrelated cockerel from a different source every breeding season. The drawback to that is that you have very little control over the improvements in type. The best type breeding method is probably line breeding. That is selecting a bird that is a perfect as possible and breeding offspring back multiple generations to fix all the traits in place.

Another plans include, but are not limited to
Flock Breeding: This is maintaining a flock with around 200 hens and 10-15 cocks
Rolling Mating: Breeding Cockerels to Hens and Pullets to Cocks every year (this ensures that full siblings are not paired)
Spiral Breeding: Setting up multiple breeding lines and passing cockerels in the same direction each year (i.e. a cockerels from flock #1 always goes to flock #2, and the cockerel from #2 to #3 and #3 to #1)
Yard Breeding: Similar to Spiral Breeding but I think that the cockerels can be used in any flock that is not their own (no set rotation).
Clan Breeding: Similar to Yard Breeding, but eggs are tracked from every hen and pedigree of every chicken in the flock is maintained to track where the type improvement (and defects) are coming from.
Single Mating: Similar to Clan breeding only inbreeding coefficients are tracked rather than setting up breeding line (back breeding used in single mating, but not Clan Breeding)
Three-in one-out: This is a form of line breeding that starts with a near perfect pullet and near perfect cockerel (unrelated). Pullets are bread back the cock three times, and cockerels are bred back to the Hen three times. Then a new breeding cockerels is selected from the Hen's line and new pullets from the cockerel's line and the process starts over. After the 2nd round of 3-in 1-out new blood lines is set and continued breeding will pair the most distant related birds in the flock. Type is set and will stays with the distant breeding and vigor returns.

Okay....that is a summary of about everything I know. Still it is a struggle to find what works best especially when you are also balancing coop space, flock size, record keeping limitations, etc.

I'm going for vigor first, personally. I love this breed. Just hatched some chicks and noticed last night that 3 of the 4 have feather stubs on their legs. I swear I've seen something about this written but cannot seem to find it now. Does anyone have any information about CLs with feather stubs?? How big a problem is this?