Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[Brada Puhi]

Aloha kakou,

Autosexing, egg color and egglaying may not be judgeable in a show, nevertheless it is a major part of the breed. There was earlier discussion of a chick with a white dot and chipmunk stripes, and the guy had a hard time telling the sex. That whole litter should not be bred as it is detrimental to the breed.

Egg color should be as blue as possible. Too many times, people cull females before they even grow up and lay eggs.

Egg laying should be often and large.

These are targeted traits of Punnet and Pease if I am not mistaken. These traits should not be put on the back burner in favor of feather color. They are what makes the CL special and what attracts us newcomers to the breed.

Mahalo, Puhi

 

[Darkangael]

Yes it is some of what attracts people to the breed and I do not believe it will be omitted from the work being done with the breed.

The SOP is just a guideline and it should be used as such maybe keeping egg and meat records would help some of us better track our breeding stock.

Remember though that breeding is always a moving target the emphasis on color is a part but only a part of what makes up any breed most here seem to agree that keeping an eye on production qualities is also desirable since these birds are likely to be kept by backyard breeders and not commercially.

Never the less there has been discussion of both type as well as color.

Edited to correct wall of text

 

[tniron]

Aloha kakou,

Autosexing, egg color and egglaying may not be judgeable in a show, nevertheless it is a major part of the breed.  There was earlier discussion of a chick with a white dot and chipmunk stripes, and the guy had a hard time telling the sex.  That whole litter should not be bred as it is detrimental to the breed.

Egg color should be as blue as possible.  Too many times, people cull females before they even grow up and lay eggs.

Egg laying should be often and large.

These are targeted traits of Punnet and Pease if I am not mistaken.  These traits should not be put on the back burner in favor of feather color.  They are what makes the CL special and what attracts us newcomers to the breed.

Mahalo, Puhi

Just how distinctive are they when they hatch?

 

[Darkangael]

Just how distinctive are they when they hatch?

He is talking about the chicks earlier in the thread where there were the dark male chicks and the female with the little spot.

 

[ChicKat]

Tiniron...very noticeable differences, It is easy to tell the sex right away, IMO. Strangely, some females have a few white hairs in their down at the top of their skull...some folks consider this a requirement, and some folks find it a bit confusing. Many of the female chicks in the USA actually don't have any white on the head.

That is partly why Punnett emphasized clear chipmunk stripes for female chick identification. Nice white blotch on top of head for male identification......

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Just how distinctive are they when they hatch?

There are 6 males and 6 females in this photo. Can you see the chipmunk striped females and the white dot on the head of the males?

Interestingly enough, I had a big hatch yesterday (26 eggs went into lockdown), still need to check the incubator for stragglers but FINALLY I have a fairly close male/female ratio (Nearly ALL my hatches this year have been VERY male heavy). There are two boys that I only know are boys because they have no back striping- there is almost no dot on their head at all! Odd as I haven't seen it before and got two in this hatch. I need to get a picture and post it. They will be culled. Also got 1 white female which is about right, for every 2- 2 1/2 dozen eggs I hatch I seem to get 1 white.

Tiniron...very noticeable differences, It is easy to tell the sex right away, IMO. Strangely, some females have a few white hairs in their down at the top of their skull...some folks consider this a requirement, and some folks find it a bit confusing. Many of the female chicks in the USA actually don't have any white on the head.

That is partly why Punnett emphasized clear chipmunk stripes for female chick identification. Nice white blotch on top of head for male identification......

X2. Part of why I am choosing to cull the two males with no headspot.

 

[dretd]

Quote:

*My add: he may have had trouble because he did not know what to look for, not that the differences were not apparent. I had questions on my first hatch but it was obvious--my problem not the chicks.

Egg color should be as blue as possible. Too many times, people cull females before they even grow up and lay eggs.

Egg laying should be often and large.

These are targeted traits of Punnet and Pease if I am not mistaken. These traits should not be put on the back burner in favor of feather color.* They are what makes the CL special and what attracts us newcomers to the breed.

Aloha Puhi and Hi tniron!

If you go back to the downs color listed in the British SOP, they do list a head spot in the girls, set off nicely against the distinctive brown "V". I would not say it is white, but cream colored, to match the stripes. I also do not think it is at all hard to sex them (with the spot) once you know what to look for. Interestingly the male doesn't even mention a head spot--my take is that he should be pale enough and it splotchy enough it blends in and is not obvious.

Here is the British SOP for the downs and link:
http://www.harislau.info/legbar
Downs, Female (Cream): Silver-grey type. The stripe should be very dark brown, extending over the head, neck and rump. The edges of the stripe should be clearly defined, not blurred and blending with ground colour - the sharper the contrast, especially over the rump the better. The stripe should be broad; a narrow or discontinuous stripe should be avoided. A light head patch should be visible, clearly defined in outline, showing up brightly against the dark background.

Male: The down is much paler in tint, the pattern being blurred and washed out from head to rump; it may best be described as pale silvery-slaty.

Here is a girl with the biggest headspot I hatched. It matches the chipmunk stripes. The 'V" is very distinct. The brown stripe down the back is sharply defined. Cant mistake this is a chipmunk chick girl.


Here is a photo of a girl with no headpot and her hatch-mate boy. No chipmunk stripes at all on his back--very slate-colored, not much silver (a bit dark) but no cinnamon/brown/tan on him at all. White spot on the back of his head easily visible.

 

[Darkangael]

Aloha Puhi and Hi tniron!

If you go back to the downs color listed in the British SOP, they do list a head spot in the girls, set off nicely against the distinctive brown "V". I would not say it is white, but cream colored, to match the stripes. I also do not think it is at all hard to sex them (with the spot) once you know what to look for. Interestingly the male doesn't even mention a head spot--my take is that he should be pale enough and it splotchy enough it blends in and is not obvious.

Here is the British SOP for the downs and link:
http://www.harislau.info/legbar
Downs, Female (Cream): Silver-grey type. The stripe should be very dark brown, extending over the head, neck and rump. The edges of the stripe should be clearly defined, not blurred and blending with ground colour - the sharper the contrast, especially over the rump the better. The stripe should be broad; a narrow or discontinuous stripe should be avoided. A light head patch should be visible, clearly defined in outline, showing up brightly against the dark background.

Male: The down is much paler in tint, the pattern being blurred and washed out from head to rump; it may best be described as pale silvery-slaty.

Here is a girl with the biggest headspot I hatched. It matches the chipmunk stripes. The 'V" is very distinct. The brown stripe down the back is sharply defined. Cant mistake this is a chipmunk chick girl.


Here is a photo of a girl with no headpot and her hatch-mate boy. No chipmunk stripes at all on his back--very slate-colored, not much silver (a bit dark) but no cinnamon/brown/tan on him at all. White spot on the back of his head easily visible.

Beautiful chicks and nice illustration of how to auto-sex them, I might have wondered about the girl up top.

 

[faykokoWV]

Been meaning to get one- hoping to have it budgeted in by Christmas.

I finally bought one earlier this year... wish I'd bought it 5 years ago - best investment towards breeding chickens ever!

 

[namastemama]

I would like to get started with some quality Legbars for breeding stock. Can anyone tell me who is selling hatching eggs right now( its too hot to ship chicks right now)