Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[GaryDean26]

That brings up something I've wondered about. How many sources did GFF purchase the original group of CLs...

Import #1: Late in 2010 GFF imported two quads of Legbars from two sources. The cockerel from one of the quads and a few of the pullets from this import were lost to Mareks. The remaining were therefore combined to for the GFF "A Line"

Import #2: Early in 2011 GFF imported a cockerel that was unrelated to their first import and gave him pullets that were offspring of Flock A. This formed the GFF "B line"

Import #3: In the Summer of 2011 GFF imported another breeding group of CLB's that were unrelated to Line A & Line B. This group formed their "C line"

2013 Flock: GFF announced that their 2013 flock was new and improved. They featured a Cream Colored hens from and the Cock bird imported in the Summer of 2011. It is not clear to me if the hen they showed was an imported hen of offspring from their 2012 pairings being bred back to her sire, but at any rate the 2013 flock and the C line flock are related.

Import #4: In the summer of 2013 GFF imported a breeding group from Jill Rees.

So...4 blood blood lines have been imported. Those that got Juvinile Pairs from GFF in 2011 got stock from Flock A&B. By December of 2011 people order day-old chicks were being sent chicks from three flocks, so I would assume most of the 2012 day-old chicks received from GFF were from line A, B, & C. In 2013 GFF had new parings to focus on the isolation of the cream gene in their stock.

The Rees line has not yet been released.

 

[ChicKat]

Just above the page marked 329 at the top in that article Punnett talks about the differences he sees in salmon.

One thing a bit confusing in it is he refers to Columbian influence (possibly from his original source of cream?) when he is talking about getting the brown leghorn type plumage.

Then right above the paragraph titled Rhode Island Red Cross, he states "Nevertheless, though less intense, chestnut in the Brown Leghorn remains chestnut in its cream counter-part. So the rooster photos at the end (Don't we wish we had color) are of Cream Leghorns - and the feather photos - referenced in the very end of that paragraph said that the Cream Leghorn will have white in the secondaries. Even with our black & white (photos in the plate in the article0 - the difference in the secondaries is pretty stark.

ETA - so if we could only see the plate of roosters in color, we could see the cream hackles - and the added colors as they would parallel a brown leghorn. -- anyone out there have this in color? do we have any friends in the UK....?? (I actually have a niece living in London, maybe she could trace down the journal in some library over there--- any ideas guys?)

Another point-to-ponder that we had all be wrestling with somewhat was answered for me in this link that was sent to me by TheTropix On page with 466 at the top - Punnett's Table I

http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jgenet/27/465.pdf

He lists olive and green eggs as blue.........

 

[enola]

This is what I have problems understanding ---- how can someone write a research paper if they can't tell the difference between the colors blue and olive green......

I am sorry but I have preschool grand children that can tell the difference between olive green and blue.

I am finding the discussion of feather coloring very interesting. I think (after following this discussion) individual breeders will choose their breeding stock based on their own interpretation of the SOP just like the breeders of all other livestock.

 

[TheTropix]

Hi GaryDean and everyone,
Thank you very much for that info!!

 

[nicalandia]

The ONLY Silver Duckwing Breed I know of with Rich colored Salmon Breast is the Silver duckwing Welsummers, they seem to carry an special salmon breast enhancer that only affects females as the Males are Clear Silver



knowing how silver duckwing araucanas and silver leghorns have pale salmon breast, one would assume the CCL should also have issues keeping its breast color vivid.

you can see how brith the Silver Duckwing Welsumer looks from this angle

http://www.kippenencyclopedie.nl/php/images/6/6d/Welsumer_Zilverpatrijs_hen.jpg

now take a look how pale the Silver duckwing Araucana salmon breast are

http://www.cashsblueeggs.com/silverduckwingaraucana.htm

 

[KPenley]

...We are trying to match, as best possible the intent of Punnett.

I am reading that Punnett is saying that the warmer grey is correct. How do you all interpret this?

That test cream Leghorns had warm gray bodies, not necessarily Cream Legbars.

While this paper is wonderful in it's educational purposes it does not take into account the combination of Pease's Legbar, complete with cream genes from the Reesheath Leghorn and barring.

While the intent of Punnett is very important to me (and Pease for that matter)...my goal is not to match his intent. My goal is to match the Cream Legbar Standard. After the Cream Legbar was standardized, it was accepted by Punnett and the PCGB. That is more important to me than original test results.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
Ive read that Punnett was at the time of the intorduction of the CCL one of the Chair members?

 

[KPenley]

Quote:
I'm fairly certain that he was the President

 

[GaryDean26]

At the time the Cream Legbar was accepted as a breed, I believe Punnett was the President of the Auto-sexing Poultry Association of Great Britain. The reference is here if anyone wants to look this up to confirm. That was the "club" that submitted the Cambar, Gold Legbar, Silver Legbar, Cream Legbar, etc. to the PCGB for breed acceptance. The Auto-sexing Poultry Association of Great Britian has since been dissolved. Currently the Rare Poultry Society is the Club that is currently responsible for the Cream Legbar in the UK. So... he was the Club President of the group that submitted the breed for acceptance although we would have been in his early 70's at the time so I don't know what level of involvement he had in the process.

 

[ChicKat]

This is what I have problems understanding ---- how can someone write a research paper if they can't tell the difference between the colors blue and olive green......

Because Punnett was a geneticist - when he says blue - he is really talking about the O/O genetics as opposed to o/o -- so to get any of the colors blue, green or olive, the hen would have to have O - genetics. We non-geneticists were confused because - we thought blue meant --- well - blue....