Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[nicalandia]

Quote:
I would do an outcross to Sulmtaler chicken breed, they are Dual Purpose, lay white eggs(good to keep blue eggs) and have creast... they are based on wheaten but are mostly wildtype so getting e+ and Barring is easy work.... http://greenfirefarms.com/store/category/chickens/sulmtaler/

 

[WHmarans]

I really like the rose comb idea. My rooster got frostbite this winter.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
FlyingMonkey is already workiing on them... but I would wait for the standard SOP to be admitted first then you guys could work on the rosecomb, Bantam or Dual Purpose later..

 

[WHmarans]

Quote:
FlyingMonkey is already workiing on them... but I would wait for the standard SOP to be admitted first then you guys could work on the rosecomb, Bantam or Dual Purpose later..

Don't worry I've got my hands full with what I've got now. Lol. And I don't raise bantams. But it would be adorable.

 

[DCchicken]

I never said anything about creating hybrids and calling them CCLs. I am using birds purchased directly from GFF and breeding with dual purpose in mind. I may also import additional unrelated to GFF Legbars.

Edited by Staff

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
thats right, you stated that you want Dual Purpose CCL... now Dual Purpose is not a Set size, but when I think of DP, I always think RIR, BR or Wyandottes.... but Araucanas are on the small side of DP... whats the size you are aiming for?

 

[DCchicken]

DDChicken:

Since I was involved in the initial discussions and formation of the US CCL Club, I respetfully disagree with you. There has been from the beginning and continues to be today, an open discussion amongst "real (could you define what you mean by that???) CCL breeders." It seems quite clear to me from reading Punnett's published papers (citations in prior posts) that the Legbar was always intended to be an autosexing breed based upon the Leghorn and its exceptional laying ability. The Legbar's current form is based upon its function...as an egg layer. How do you propose to turn that form into dual purpose? One can always eat any chicken, even if it is only fit for soup. Do you plan to cull for size in your CCL flock? Or do you plan to outcross? And if so, what are you planning to breed it to in order to change its form and function?

As others have reiterated, the CCL breed was created in Britain (U of Cambridge, Punnett and Pease) and is therefore a British breed. They developed the Standard for their breed in 1947/58. I certainly don't claim to speak for everyone in the US CCL Club, but we - we being the first drafters of the US DRAFT SOP - based it, almost verbatim (with a few tweaks for stuff that didn't translate to APA format) on the UK SOP. I haven't heard or read of any discussion since on significantly changing that as to size or purpose, only discussions to figure out if the genetics we have available through Greenfire's importation efforts will match the proposed US SOP and the efforts of some to import stock that already meets the UKSOP i.e. Reese birds thus far.


Now I do love a good dual purpose breed and in fact raise a few of them; however, that does not mean every breed SHOULD be dual purpose. A dual purpose bird, while an asset to the homesteader/small holder, is a jack of all trades and master at none. To meet two purposes they sacrifice excellence in either. There is still a place for exclusive layers and exclusive meat producers. You might also be interested to know that dual purpose autosexing '-bar' breeds have already been done; the right margin of this link contains a list of them http://www.harislau.info/autosexing-

If you haven't already done so, go back and review this thread from the beginning. APA Judge Walt Leonard (Fowlman) has provided some great advice. He is currently a member of the APA SOP Committee. They don't just approve a standard that reads as 'correct.' There must be enough breeders breeding to the proposed SOP with enough numbers to hold a qualifying meet i.e. show.

If you and others truly wish to create a dual purpose, auto-sexing, blue-egg laying, cream gene carrying, crested chicken based on the CCL and some meatier outcross, you certainly don't need to seek anyone's consent or approval to do so. "FlyingMonkey" is already working on a rose comb variety by crossing CCL with rose comb Leghorns. However, the the names Crested Cream Legbar and/or Cream Legbar already belong to a breed recognized in the UK, imported into this country by GFF and bred by real CCL breeders dedicated to preserving that British breed. In my mind it would create confusion to do as you suggest and rename in the US that UK layer breed known as the [Crested] Cream Legbar in favor of a dual purpose bird that doesn't yet exist.

Just my 2 cents...


edited to correct user ID to "FlyingMonkey"

I am well aware of other autosexing breeds. I already raise 12 different breeds, including Bielefelders. I don't breed for profit but instead to improve the breed itself. To your point about needing more breeders, I have already given away CCLs for free and will continue to do so to help spread CCLs. It's just that my focus on CCLs (as well as other breeders that don't visit this forum) is that with dual purpose birds rather than birds of just one trick.

Edited by Staff

 

[DCchicken]

Quote: Similar to Bielefelders, around 10lbs for the boys. I raise both.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
10 LBS? wow thats one meaty boy.... ok then a simple cross to Bielefelder would to the trick then... then cross the F1s and keep the cream crested ones(need to hatch atleast 50 to see some of them) Edit.. I have never ever seen pics of CCL as big as the Bielefelders, nor old pics from old(punnetts, pease) so I would have to assume you would be creating a new type of CCL, not Re-Creating the old forgotten CCL as it was intended, because such a large breed was not meant by the orginial breeders(at least from punnetts words) second Edit.. all of my none relevant to SOP coments can be deleted by the thread starter or the thread keeper as to keep this thread clean...

 

[lonnyandrinda]

I give up on taking pictures of males- pulled my most promising cockerel out to take wing pictures as requested last week and lost him this week to respiratory crap. He's been quarantined in the house since I took pictures since I noticed his symptoms so hopefully the rest of the flock is fine, it's a nasty bug didn't respond to tetracycline in the water or Tylan injections. Everytime I take pictures of a hopeful boy I lose him soon after.