Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[nicalandia]

Quote:
didnt Mr. Pease stated that for untrained eyes the only difference between the Silver legbar and the Cream legbars was the Creast on males?(some males do look silverish now a days)

 

[dretd]

Well, if the following the line of the neck isn't the problem, then we are best off to stick with the English style comb rather than changing to and American Comb since the Cream Legbar would be in the English Class and not the American Class.

I have been doing what research I can on the history and progression of the comb. The Cream Legbar's SOP is based mainly on the Leghorn as far as I can tell. The English class is a mishmash of different breeds and they do not include the Leghorn (Orpington, Dorking, Redcaps, Cornish, Sussex, Australorp) so there is really no comparison on comb types between the different breeds.

The Current American version of Leghorns comb (from the 2010 APA SOP, pg 117): "Comb: Single; fine in texture, of medium size, straight and upright; firm and even on the head (fig 68), having five distinct points, deeply serrated and extending well over the back of the head with no tendency to follow the shape of the neck; smooth, free from twists folds or excrescences"

The Contemporary English Leghorn comb version (taken from the Australian site) http://leghornclubaustralia.webs.com/leghornstandards.htm COMB: Single or rose. The single of fine texture, straight and erect, moderately large but not overgrown, coarse or beefy. Deeply and evenly serrated (the spikes broad at their base), extending well beyond the back of the head and following, without touching, the line of the head, free from “thumb marks”, side sprigs or twist at the back.

The Dutch version does not list a specific type but indicates closer the the English version although in the artwork the comb looks somewhat smaller than the English ideal http://www.leghorn.nl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=132

The Legbar head standard as it was submitted in 1958 ---there is no mention of the comb closely following the head http://blue-eggs.co.uk/#/history-of-cream-legbars/4554275782 :
HEAD- Crested; beak stout; eyes prominent; comb single, straight and erect, evenly and deeply serrated, large but not overgrown, extending beyond the back of the head, free from side sprigs; earlobes well developed, pendant, smooth, and open; wattles long and thin.

The current Legbar comb standard http://blue-eggs.co.uk/#/standard-for-cream-legbar/4554224408 Head: Fine. Beak stout, point clear of the front of the comb. Eyes prominent. Comb single, perfectly straight and erect, large but not overgrown, deep and evenly serrated (5 to 7 spikes broad at the base), extending well beyond the back of the head and following, without touching, the line of the head, free from "thumb marks" or side spikes.

Legbar (not Cream) photo from Punnett's paper 1940 http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jgenet/41/1.pdf showing what I would term a more American-Style comb.



Conclusion: it looks like at some point between 1958 and the present, the Legbar standard was modified in the English SOP to match the English Leghorn comb which included adding wording to change the shape so that it now follows the head and neck instead of not commenting on that aspect of the comb. The photo leads me to believe that the Legbars original comb did not follow the line of the head.

So the loaded philosophical question is: Are we as a Club trying, through historical studies, to embody (or at least take into account) the Legbar as it was originally created by Punnett and Pease, or are we trying to replicate the current model of Cream Legbar as it is in the UK? Or something in between (tweaking the English version to acknowledge the history of the breed and make it more utility oriented and less show oriented)?

What thoughts do y'all have?

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
I would say if you Follow the British SOP to the letter then may aswell have the Silver looking Males too, I mean is a trend in the British, as for Combs, I would say follow the "American" Leghorn combs as they follow what the Original legbars looked like, why? well because the Danish Leghorn use to creat the Original Legbar had a break away single comb.. here a drawing http://static.picassomio.com/images/art/0d/d8/8f/diane-jacky-artwork-large-62174.jpg

 

[enola]

Wow! Now that is a lot of color, gorgeous birds.

 

[GaryDean26]

I have been doing what research I can on the history and progression of the comb. The Cream Legbar's SOP is based mainly on the Leghorn as far as I can tell. The English class is a mishmash of different breeds and they do not include the Leghorn (Orpington, Dorking, Redcaps, Cornish, Sussex, Australorp) so there is really no comparison on comb types between the different breeds.

What I meant is that since this is an English Bird that it would be better if it reminded people of an English Leghorn rather than an American Leghorn. Keeping the 6 points and the comb following the neck would accomplish that. If we move to five points or a comb that doesn't follow the line of the neck people will look at it and think of an American Poultry Association standard Leghorn.

Below is what I have been working with. I am not an artist, but made this for my own reference. I am only focusing a few things in the SOP right now and will likely revise my sketches over time as I focus on new areas, but for now you can see I am aiming for combs that follows the neck line.

 

[ChicKat]

didnt Mr. Pease stated that for untrained eyes the only difference between the Silver legbar and the Cream legbars was the Creast on males?(some males do look silverish now a days)

Strangely, in that same quote Pease said that the chick down should be the same as gold chicks for the Cream Legbar.

The whole sentence didn't make any sense to me until I realized that up to about 12-weeks, the crest would be the way to tell a Cream Legbar from a silver or gold - since the very young cockerels are little barred birds (the Cream Legbar Club website has some age sequence shots that some of our great members have made available.) Only a crest at that young age would differentiate the various male CLs.

Strangely too that in the UK standard for the Cream Legbar they call for chick down as the silver. There are some mis-matches floating around the chicken world nicalandia

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
its going to be hard to avoid folds on the males combs... I would aim for a comb like this one, while it does not follow the neckline it does not shoot straight like some american leghorns do..

 

[ChicKat]

Nice drawings GaryDean26!!

 

[nicalandia]

A nice well built Exchequer Leghorn Male with British type comb(comb is large and extend to the beak but it does not fold)

 

[blackbirds13]

I heard from Jenny today at Greenfire Farms,
The Rees line is not being bred to their current Legbar flocks. They imported 2 lines and have bred that out into A, B, C and D lines. So the Rees birds you buy will only be from imported stock not current genetics mixed in. They are still looking to release in the spring.