Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[lonnyandrinda]

Does anyone know if there is a DNA test to find out if a bird carries the blue or green egg gene?

I just grew out birds from another breeder and they just started laying. Unfortunately, some of their eggs are green. My original flock laid sky blue eggs, but 2 of the 4 girls were not crested so I thought it would be a good idea to get chicks from a crested flock. I plan to trap nest them to see who is laying blue and who lays green. However, if my roosters have the green gene I will be right back in the same situation the next generation. I am hoping I can get a blood test on the boys to see if they carry the green gene.

Also, while I am at it.... Can you test to see if a black bird is split for lavender with a DNA test?

That is right green eggs come from brown genes + blue genes. There are at least 15 different brown egg genes so I seriously doubt you could test for it. You could test mate for it though. I would guess you could breed the rooster to a white egg layer and grow out at least 5 or 6 pullets. If any of those pullets lay green tinted eggs, then your rooster carries brown genes. It would take you 8-10 months but it would be a solid answer.

Not sure on the lavender split. Again you could figure out how to test mate for it. Might contact someone with more genetics background like @tadkerson .

 

[nicalandia]

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seems like the Cream Crele and Silver Crele Leghorns have better barring and the breast is of a dark Grey color and the wing Triangle remains white/cream

now Silver Crele

now take a good look at them(crele leghorns) and take a good look at the CCL males I am about to post.. in the CCL males the breast barring is just grey colore(not dark grey) and since the neck(hackle) also calls for a grey barring on it, you cant see where one begins and the other starts(cant see the well defined breast dark grey barring becuase its grey and also the neck color is grey so they blend together).. the berring on the CCL seem to be messy and not well define and most are not dark grey, just grey making most silverish birds look almost like a solid light grey barred bird..
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another CL roo...

Interestingly enough the first generation of CL from GFF showed a distingtive dark grey breast..

while this male has a dark breast but it the barring is messy and not well defined

 

[nicalandia]

most Uk CCL males look like this male(color wise, not body type, I just think he is too small,) https://www.omlet.de/images/cache/800/600/cream_legbar_chickens_humbug and most Silver Crele birds look like this male, basically dark grey breast and underbody and silver barring with little grey baring if any on top.. http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa353/texas75563/P1000042.jpg I always had this question why didnt mr. Punnett use Barred leghorns or cuckoo leghorns that were available in europe since the en of the 1800's so to me, crele looks to be a bird with two color patterns(top and bottom) and the CCL seem to blur the lines and make the bird look more like a single grey barred bird... and so going by this most of the American Line of CL appear more crele looking than the Uk line, I doint think this is good because this means they are lacking the melanizers that will put the grey barring on the back, saddle and hackle and crest here a bird that appears to be two tone(grey under body and breast and cream top)
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I dont know whats your preference are, but so far to me the SOP seem to describe a Crele looking bird with extra melanizers ontop.. but so far some birds lack this melanizers and/or the bottom barring is grey or light grey not dark welldefined grey

 

[dretd]

most Uk CCL males look like this male(color wise, not body type, I just think he is too small,)
https://www.omlet.de/images/cache/800/600/cream_legbar_chickens_humbug

and most Silver Crele birds look like this male, basically dark grey breast and underbody and silver barring with little grey baring if any on top..
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa353/texas75563/P1000042.jpg


I always had this question why didnt mr. Punnett use Barred leghorns or cuckoo leghorns that were available in europe since the en of the 1800's

so to me, crele looks to be a bird with two color patterns(top and bottom) and the CCL seem to blur the lines and make the bird look more like a single grey barred bird...

and so going by this most of the American Line of CL appear more crele looking than the Uk line, I doint think this is good because this means they are lacking the melanizers that will pur the grey barring on the back, saddle and hackle and crest

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. I also appreciate you posting both the Cream Crele and the Silver Crele birds as does demonstrate to me that there is a visual difference between Cream and Silver--at least in these two examples.

I have highlighted your statement above becasue I do feel it is important. I have been stuckrepeatedly pouring over the SOP which includes the darkly barred breast. This also appears in the original British version we used as the base for the American SOP. You are saying that many if not most of the CL roos you see posted have a lighter grey barring on their breasts. I agree--the ones that many people are admiring (like on the Breeder's FB page) are of this lighter pattern and in general there seems to be a trend for the lighter color in what people are using as a breeding goal. Unfortunately, this does not math the SOP as written. In looking at the SOP, the ideal rooster should have the darker breast like you pictured as the last rooster from GFF, which makes me think Cream Crele, not Cuckoo or Barred.

So if the SOP does not match the winning birds on the ground, and we are supposed to be breeding towards the ideal in the SOP, why are the roos with the light colored barring being favored since their plumage is not the color it is supposed to be according to the SOP? Shouldn't we be praising the darker barring like the last one from GFF since it matches the SOP? (this is a rhetorical question for everyone who breeds CLs)

I am also confused by your last statement as it seems counter-intuitive to me. I think that you are stating that a Crele bird with the darker breast lacks melanizers that make the grey barring on the back and saddle. Why does a bird with lighter barring on the breast have more melanizers on the back and saddle than a more darkly barred bird which has less? I am really missing something here!

 

[nicalandia]

I know I have seen birds like I was describing, basically a Cream Crele bird with extre melanizers that would put the "Dark Grey" the SOP calls for on Breast, back, shoulders, secondaries....

here is what the SOP calls for males, so far this is the closest birds to the SOP I have seen

I thin they are blackbirds males...http://www.blackbirds13.com/cream-legbars-2/

here they are

 

[nicalandia]

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it has more melanizers as to put the grey barring on back,saddle, secondaries, coverts, shoulders, without the melanizers this areas would remain gold/cream barred instead, why birds showing melanizers have light grey breast is beyond me, I just dont know why...but if you the pics I posted about blackbirds birds, they are dark grey and also show melanizers and good cream color...

 

[nicalandia]

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I dont know why? I guess since color is about 10% of something like that they are wining on other points?.. you can see if your males will turn out to be Dark grey or light grey even before they are fully mature, take a look at this males from the UK, they would turn out to be light barred on the breasts.. https://www.omlet.de/images/cache/800/533/cream_legbar_chickens_mixture_of_cream_legbars

 

[dretd]

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So do you think that if you bred a dark breasted roo line to a melanized back/saddle roo line that you could eventually get both the dark breast and the correct grey barring on the saddle and back? You wouldn't think that the colors were linked on one chromosome preventing that sort of selection, would you?

I agree also about the nice coloration on Blackbird13's roos which is why I got some of her eggies. I have one roo from each line--one is dark breasted and one is light so I will get to experiment with the barring, thankfully. As a side note, they both had similar light creamy down with light grey undertones as chicks so the light barring vs dark barring having different colored downs does not mesh with the two boys I am currently growing out.

 

[nicalandia]

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yes its possible for you to breed the melanized line with the dark breast line to produce both melanized and dark breasted birds.. something must be modifying the barring, and you are right it may not be connected to the barring gene.. also one thing to point out, the overall barring on the CCL is messy, you cant really follow any pattern, I dont know why? and its not because the birds are gold, I mean the crele OEGs have such crisp barring for being a gold base bird.. also the barring on the leg drums seem to be very messy and faint, check this on your birds and on the Crele Cream Leghorn I posted(the bird is show quality ofcourse)

 

[lonnyandrinda]

I have noticed the cl barring of my birds and most others ive seen is messy versus crisp. I thought some breeds are supposed to be that way though. I don't know enough genetically to say why or how CLS should be.