Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[ChicKat]

... I came to the conclusion that you can still have a Med type without Rock influences and be of a very good weight and that with some differences, the Andalusian seemed to be a better reference for the Legbar, should I want to look at other breeds. http://blueandalusian.com/american-standard-perfection-blue-andalusians/ I think for me the biggest difference that is important between the Andalusian and the Legbar is the description of the legs, with the legs of the Legbar having a shorter thigh thus not looking as tall/stilty and the tail angle of the Andalusian is listed at 40 degrees above horizontal instead of the Legbar's 45 degrees.

just a question then to be sure I am understanding:

from the Andalusan SOP: " hock joints showing well below body line." -- the Cream Legbar hocks are not to extend below the body line...or at least no well below - (which I interpret to mean a lot).

 

[dretd]

Quote:
Yup--that's why I specifically pointed out that the legs were different. The Andalusian has longer thighs so you see the hock joint clearly. This is the biggest difference between the Lagbar and Andalusian. Our draft standard actually doesn't talk about the hocks in relation to the body at all, just the overall length being moderately long but the thigh only being medium which I interpret will put the hock to just below the body line, give or take:

Legbar:"Legs and Toes: Legs moderately long, straight when viewed from the front. Thighs are medium length. Shanks round, strong, and free from feathers. "
Andalusian:"Legs and Toes: Legs set well apart, straight when viewed from front. Lower thighs – medium size, rather long, hock joints showing well below body line".

The standards are all a little different and end up using wiggle-words like moderately long and rather long. On the plus side, it leaves more up for interpretation and gives flexibility to the breeders, but on the down side there is a potential for less uniformity and may cause lively discussions about what does 'rather' mean exactly and how much longer is 'rather' than 'moderately'? Questions for the ages I'm afraid!

 

[ChicKat]

No kidding dretd - there is always room for interpretation -- in some ways there has to be.

Here is a picture of a Ceram Legbar from the Balmoral Show 2014 (http://cloghervalleypoultry.com/index.php/about-us/news)


Andrew Kerr - Cream Legbar Pullet won: "Best Cream Legbar female", "Best Autosexing" in a class of 15 birds hen made it to championship row for the Rare Breed society.....

FYI

 

[ChicKat]

whoops looks like a double post -- sorry folks.

 

[ChicKat]

In unpacking I have found 2 OAC charts that I had orderd several of....
If you are a full member of the CL club and you haven't yet gotten one - send me the address where you would like them sent... and .. if you are the first two -- you get an OAC.

Also - for everyone entering weights on the tracking....Corrigan was 4.75 pounds this morning at 18-weeks.... He is still big feet, long legs, and unfortunately squirrel tail - but hey no one is perfect right. LOL

I would be really interested in seeing your current weights for those of you who started and then stopped -- you needn't fill in the betweens..just scroll to the weeks in the top heading (column) -- I have locked the rows - so you will see your IDs on the left side of the page no matter which week you are entering (or month, or year)---- A tip -- if you click on the row - it will highlight and it is really easy to enter the weight (in pounds and fractions of pounds if you would be so kind) - in the row beside your chicken's ID -- under the column that identifies the week.

Thanks!

 

[Flaming Chicken]

In unpacking I have found 2 OAC charts that I had orderd several of.... 
If you are a full member of the CL club and you haven't yet gotten one - send me the address where you would like them sent... and .. if you are the first two -- you get an OAC. 

Also - for everyone entering weights on the tracking....Corrigan was 4.75 pounds this morning at 18-weeks.... He is still big feet, long legs, and unfortunately squirrel tail - but hey no one is perfect right.  LOL

I would be really interested in seeing your current weights for those of you who started and then stopped -- you needn't fill in the betweens..just scroll to the weeks in the top heading (column) -- I have locked the rows - so you will see your IDs on the left side of the page no matter which week you are entering (or month, or year)----   A tip -- if you click on the row - it will highlight and it is really easy to enter the weight (in pounds and fractions of pounds if you would be so kind) - in the row beside your chicken's ID -- under the column that identifies the week.

Thanks! 

I sent you a PM

Carol

 

[ChicKat]

In unpacking I have found 2 OAC charts that I had orderd several of....
If you are a full member of the CL club and you haven't yet gotten one - send me the address where you would like them sent... and .. if you are the first two -- you get an OAC.

Also - for everyone entering weights on the tracking....Corrigan was 4.75 pounds this morning at 18-weeks.... He is still big feet, long legs, and unfortunately squirrel tail - but hey no one is perfect right. LOL

I would be really interested in seeing your current weights for those of you who started and then stopped -- you needn't fill in the betweens..just scroll to the weeks in the top heading (column) -- I have locked the rows - so you will see your IDs on the left side of the page no matter which week you are entering (or month, or year)---- A tip -- if you click on the row - it will highlight and it is really easy to enter the weight (in pounds and fractions of pounds if you would be so kind) - in the row beside your chicken's ID -- under the column that identifies the week.

Thanks!

I sent you a PM

Carol

hope it gets there safe & sound....


Ladies & Gents...all the OACs are spoken for....
:O)

 

[ChicKat]

sorry another double post--- my computer is doing such weird things lately........

 

[Pat Barron]

I would like some of you cream Legbar breeders to critique some of my pics of my birds. How do they compare to others out there?

 

[chicken pickin]

I have a hard time critiquing as I am still learning like many others and I often cant go into detail but I will give it a try.

For me personally I like the look of the male pictured in pictures 2,3 and 5. He has good color, nice type, and decent comb ( Is pic 1 the same male only young?) I like this Male in pic 1 he has potential, I love the Male in 2,3 and 5.

If it was my breeding program I would cull the other males, Male 2 the type seems off to me he is not shaped right though it could be the picture angle. Male 2 also has a wrong comb that is odd for this breed and it is too large, his wattles also seem oversized. I think for me that comb alone would be a cull point for this male (in my breeding program).

Male 3, his body shape and size are ok though I feel his neck is too short and his back doesn't slope which seems to through off the look of his body type. Again it may just be the picture angles. His type I think would be ok to work with though, the issue I am finding with this male is his color. It is way wrong. he seems like the colorful Cream Legbars we see sometimes with all the gold/ginger, only difference I see here is that he seems diluted or muted (kind of pastel almost if that makes any sense). His barring is the same very diluted/muted and not distinct. That would concern me to use him for breeding forward and would be a cull point for me.

All the things mentioned here are just my thoughts and what I would do with them if they were in my breeding program. I feel like for some reason now we need to keep continuing to mention to everyone that what works for me may not work for you. I guess because this is a new breed to us and we are all still working with flaws so what works with my flock might not work for someone elses. I do really like your Male 1 (pics 2,3 and 5 he reminds me of my Main male.

Your girls are also looking quite nice though I do think I see some golds in there. But so far so good. There is one pic of what looks to be a gold hen/pullet that has its tail to the side. If she has wry tail should consider removing her from the breeding program.

What are your plans with them? Are you picking one of these males for breeding or keeping them all? Do you plan to breed to the proposed SOP?