Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[ChicKat]

I hear you Kathy. I guess this is one of those interpretation areas where I read "more color" and assume people are talking about the bright red shoulders, backs etc ( not correct) etc and you just mean creamy hackles (correct) LOL! Best wishes!

yes, KP, There isn't any doubt in my mind, because at the Texas State Fair, judge, evaluator for the 4H thirty some birds in that show, - and all around really great guy Sam Brush said specifically he would expect to see more cream. Judge last weekend, James Cooper, said he was expecting to see more color - and I guess that could mean all the colors-- and perhaps because of Sam's comment - (and since I have a plethora of colors already -- except for fairly white-looking hackles) - I interpreted it to mean the same thing Sam said in Dallas.

 

[chicken pickin]

I think everyone is still having a hard time deciding what is the right amount of cream and what is nearing the verge of gold especially in the females. Im not sure if we have yet to find that "tell" for the females if they are gold or cream, some are hard to tell. Most of my hens/pullets are very very pale butter more on the side of silver with a slight tinge of yellow. I have one pullets that to me appears butter in color and I love her. Her sister has the same butter color but is over melanized and has a lot of dark gray in the hackles and crest. I would love to have my males showing more of the cream color also. Im hoping by pairing up my best cream butter colored pullet back to her father who is currently my best male that I might be able to bring some of that cream color into the offspring

Here is my cream (butter colored) pullet

 

[chicken pickin]

I have a young cockerel that to me is showing color in both his hackle and saddle to the point I was thinking he is more the golden crele variety, though he seems to be lacking the color on his wing triangle that goes with the golden crele variety. Maybe he is cream and the color just isn't what Im used to seeing in the cream variety?

not the best pics but here he is

 

[enola]

Yes, I agree the cream on this lovely little rooster is actually cream colored!! So, is this what we are aiming for with our legbars?

With barring on his dark feathers?

 

[ChicKat]

I have a young cockerel that to me is showing color in both his hackle and saddle to the point I was thinking he is more the golden crele variety, though he seems to be lacking the color on his wing triangle that goes with the golden crele variety. Maybe he is cream and the color just isn't what Im used to seeing in the cream variety?

not the best pics but here he is

Yes, I agree the cream on this lovely little rooster is actually cream colored!! So, is this what we are aiming for with our legbars?

With barring on his dark feathers?

I agree with enola that they are both beautiful birds. On the cockerel he is very young, and I wager that he will get lighter as he gets older. It will be so interesting to see what that pairing will bring. BTW you also have awesome photos - they have an aura.

yes, enola --- It could be that there is so much subjectivity to what cream is -- that there will be an acceptable range. Have you seen the image of the Cockerel that won at the show in UK...(it is one of their biggest Poultry shows...I forgot if the Federation or the Nationals are the most important one. I think this cockerel has won at the Nationals and Federation is later and 'bigger' -- It is a more colorful cockerel than some of the ones that we have seen.

ETA on chicken pickin's cockerel it does remind me of the crele as seen on the Old English Game Bantams (OEGB) - which is an accepted color by the APA. (at least I think it is accepted in OEGB)

 

[KPenley]

Chickinpickin, please keep us informed about your cockerel as he grows! All mine who were that goldish in the saddle had browns in the secondaries, so yours may be showing just red expression if he lacks the gold colors In the wings. He's a great test subject! Btw I think your pullet is lovely!

Enola, yes we want dark barred undersides and light top sides. Ideally the hackles and saddle will match with cream and unclear gray barring, and chestnut will be limited to allowed areas (some allowed in crest, wing bow across shoulders to other wing bow). Does that help?

Chickat, I checked and APA does list Crele as a variety of OEGB.

 

[ChicKat]

Chickinpickin, please keep us informed about your cockerel as he grows! All mine who were that goldish in the saddle had browns in the secondaries, so yours may be showing just red expression if he lacks the gold colors In the wings. He's a great test subject! Btw I think your pullet is lovely!

Enola, yes we want dark barred undersides and light top sides. Ideally the hackles and saddle will match with cream and unclear gray barring, and chestnut will be limited to allowed areas (some allowed in crest, wing bow across shoulders to other wing bow). Does that help?

Chickat, I checked and APA does list Crele as a variety of OEGB.

Thanks! I thought that they did.

 

[nicalandia]

Here is an example of cream : isn't that guy one of the cutest things you have ever seen? this is a Cream Light Brown Dutch Bantam. nicalandia could take his plain cream and put white stripes on the cream and on the dark -- to show barring. The SOP for a Cream Legbar calls for Cream...this would be what I would expect to see for cream. (with barring in it it would lighten - but not turn white IMO). When the judges have said they expect more color -

I will do something better, I will find you a real dutch bantam with that pattern... how about that? Another Crele Old Dutch Bantam rooster that I think you may like His “Cream Color”

Same Male with Hen

All of these birds are just Crele, they don’t have the cream gene, and as far as my research(I am very good at finding things) there are NO Accepted Cream Crele Dutch Bantams, I have had to learn basic Dutch to search and ask dutch breeders(currently in contact with a few) the Only accepted are Crele(Koekoekpatrijs in Dutch) Siver Crele(Koekoekzilverpatrijs) it seems that early on they found out that Cream Crele would have created a Silver Crele look a like and they gave up

 

[chicken pickin]

Chickinpickin, please keep us informed about your cockerel as he grows! All mine who were that goldish in the saddle had browns in the secondaries, so yours may be showing just red expression if he lacks the gold colors In the wings. He's a great test subject! Btw I think your pullet is lovely!

Enola, yes we want dark barred undersides and light top sides. Ideally the hackles and saddle will match with cream and unclear gray barring, and chestnut will be limited to allowed areas (some allowed in crest, wing bow across shoulders to other wing bow). Does that help?

Chickat, I checked and APA does list Crele as a variety of OEGB.

Im not to sure how long I plan to hold on to him, since he has curled toes he is of no use to me in breeding and space is limited. I hope to hold him for a while so I get an idea on his coloring as he matures but at some point he needs to get culled. I will try to take a wing picture of him, maybe tomorrow.

 

[ChicKat]

I will do something better, I will find you a real dutch bantam with that pattern... how about that?

Another Crele Old Dutch Bantam rooster that I think you may like His “Cream Color”

Same Male with Hen

All of these birds are just Crele, they don’t have the cream gene, and as far as my research(I am very good at finding things) there are NO Accepted Cream Crele Dutch Bantams, I have had to learn basic Dutch to search and ask dutch breeders(currently in contact with a few) the Only accepted are Crele(Koekoekpatrijs in Dutch) Siver Crele(Koekoekzilverpatrijs) it seems that early on they found out that Cream Crele would have created a Silver Crele look a like and they gave up

Thanks, nice photos. It is interesting the difference in the male's hackles when he is closer to the flash - top picture and farther from the flash - bottom picture. The other big contrast that I see between this Dutch Crele - which is a very nice looking bird too -is that the tail is barred pale and medium gray and ours, and the example of a Crele Leghorn are barred black and white in the tail -- much bigger contrast of colors.