Cream Legbars

[dretd]

Nicalandia - It could be that the crooked comb in the example that you are saying is better, could be a disqualifier of that bird were it to be in a show ring. - I think that crooked comb - strikes the bird out. Of all the roosters that you pictured above, the GFF 2013 line rooster has better head. So he would get a bigger share of those points. Color is 20-points - and as KPenley and normanak pointed out the judge does have to feel the heft of the bird, look it in the eye and see it up close and personal. If I were a judge, I think just from the photo, I would select GFF 2013 rooster above the others. (Especially if crooked comb is a DQ.)

Here is further info from the British standard I referenced above:
[FONT=georgia,serif]Serious Defects : Male's comb twisted or falling over. Ear lobes wholly red. Any white in face. Legs other than orange, yellow or light willow. Squirrel tail.
Disqualifications: Side sprigs on comb. Eye pupil other than round and clearly defined. Crooked breast. Wry tail. Any bodily deformity.[/FONT]

As I look at the 2013 rooster's comb, I can count (I think) 9 points--the standard calls for 5-7. Whats more, it is possible that one of the points I am counting is a side sprig, not a true point. Its hard to tell form the angle, but if it has a side sprig its a DQ. So for me, I am not sure I would personally give him more points against the others shown because there would be a deduction for the extra points.

Its also interesting to me that they list the twisted or falling over comb and the squirrel tail as serious defects and they do not have any excessive chestnut color as a serious defect or DQ. Not sure what to make of that, but it leads me to believe that it is not as important with regard to judging the cockerel. Is anyone from the Club in contact with any Legbar judges in the UK to see what they look for? That would be an outstanding help!

 

[dretd]

Thanks for your outstanding discussion on the birds above - I was also concerned about tail carriage and back length on some of the birds I have seen. I have also noticed a tendency for some birds to have pinched tails, never that great from an egg-laying standpoint.

I have read with great interest the discussions on the SOP, it is great to see the debates on the different finer points of the Standard.

Its interesting about the pinched tails. I wonder if it really is as big of a problem as they say--that it impacts laying ability. I have a flock of 7 different breeds, all hatchery. Some are really nice and others stray pretty far from the SOP of their breed. I only have one with a true pinched tail--it is really laterally compressed.

The interesting thing is that she is a really good layer. She lays large eggs about every other day. Was the last to stop laying over the winter and the first to start laying this 'spring'. Now she's only 2, so that may change, but for now that pinched tail doesn't seem to be impacting her ability to lay in any way.

I really appreciate everyone's input and comments about the birds both conformation and color comments. I learn best when I get different points of view and ideas to consider!

 

[HaplessRunner]

LOL - yes, much to my wife's chagrin, I dove in pretty deep. I have flock of 16 egg layers for that provide eggs for neighbors and a farm-to-table restaurant. I decided to get a little more serious (while still enjoying) the chickens. I got my NPIP/AI certification last week (VA 52-268). I will aslo be attending the NPIP tester class this weekend. I can see some convenience aspects of being certified as well being a service for the community.

I did get my hatching eggs online through ebay. The cream legbars came from California. The Swedish flower hens came from Florida. The Ameraucanas and EOs came from two different places in North Carolina. Travel was hard on the eggs. Two ameraucana eggs were broken and about 40-50% of the Swedish flower hens eggs had detached air sacks. So I am hoping for the best. I do not expect all to hatch but this was the most cost effective way to obtain these breeds.

 

[dretd]

LOL - yes, much to my wife's chagrin, I dove in pretty deep. ..

Well, HaplessRunner, I'm sure your wife is pretty happy that the chicks you are spending all your time with are all feathered!!

Good luck on your new adventure into chicken wrangling, I will look forward to seeing your pictures when they all hatch!

And I just realized that that was only your 5th post, so I simply must say

 

[lonnyandrinda]

ChicKat is this what you were talking about with marans? I agree this helps me A LOT to visualize which of my marans are better for "type-" You are looking for a slanted "brick" shaped body with a 45 degree tail, and also notice the proportions of height while you're at it. Hey you artistic folks- anyone want to make one for Cream Legbars?

 

[ChicKat]

ChicKat is this what you were talking about with marans? I agree this helps me A LOT to visualize which of my marans are better for "type-" You are looking for a slanted "brick" shaped body with a 45 degree tail, and also notice the proportions of height while you're at it. Hey you artistic folks- anyone want to make one for Cream Legbars?

YES... that is exactly IT. :O)

 

[ChicKat]

Here is further info from the British standard I referenced above:
[FONT=georgia,serif]Serious Defects : Male's comb twisted or falling over. Ear lobes wholly red. Any white in face. Legs other than orange, yellow or light willow. Squirrel tail.
Disqualifications: Side sprigs on comb. Eye pupil other than round and clearly defined. Crooked breast. Wry tail. Any bodily deformity.[/FONT]

As I look at the 2013 rooster's comb, I can count (I think) 9 points--the standard calls for 5-7. Whats more, it is possible that one of the points I am counting is a side sprig, not a true point. Its hard to tell form the angle, but if it has a side sprig its a DQ. So for me, I am not sure I would personally give him more points against the others shown because there would be a deduction for the extra points.

Its also interesting to me that they list the twisted or falling over comb and the squirrel tail as serious defects and they do not have any excessive chestnut color as a serious defect or DQ. Not sure what to make of that, but it leads me to believe that it is not as important with regard to judging the cockerel. Is anyone from the Club in contact with any Legbar judges in the UK to see what they look for? That would be an outstanding help!

Thanks -- I did go look it up here:
http://autosexing-poultry.co.uk/wordpress/legbar/
and you are right - the twisted comb is a serious defect, not a DQ. I also had the points wrong...the head in that link counts for 20 show points - as much as the color (or colour, as the case may be).

Interesting contrast too, that the UK standards, from what I have heard allow a range of comb points and for the APA only one number must be selected. I think that last fall the consensus was leaning toward 6 points -- if we have to pick one number....but, once again, that is the Standard Of Perfection, and there will be fine roosters that don't have the exact number.

 

[faykokoWV]

well, after several months of being to busy to blink, I'm finally back!! I've got a lot of reading to do to catch up. I do want to say the club webpage looks great and I was so happy to participate in voting for the crest contest!

 

[ChicKat]

It seems like it should be so simple -- get a list of gene abbreviations, assign them as dominant or recessive, and voila, you've got your chicken perfectly genetically defined.

But wait, there's more . . . .

E alleles, sex-linkage, traits affected by more than one gene, proximity to other genes, genotypes and phenotypes, pattern genes, gray/lavender/blue (what's the difference?), brown vs. dun vs. chocolate, lemon vs. cream vs. dilute whatever, heck, why not call it Palomino and be done with it? Eek!

;-)

 

[ChicKat]

If you have the 'Recent Images in this thread' in the right hand bar (where the advertisements are) toward the top -- you may also see what I just noticed.





Of course it is just a tiny thumbnail, but notice how perfectly the Greenfire Farms Cream Legbar is posed in comparison to the diagram. Because there is such a plenitude (vocab word of the day) of hackle feathers the Cream Legbar, the neck looks bigger and more muscular, and it's all feathers, we know how skinny chicken necks are...and the tail is very full and is that 45-degree angle. The wings are well tucked, -- I'm still voting for this bird.

as the best example that I have seen....

I put the cockerel living here in a pet carrier last night - am taking him to his new home today. He didn't really like the experience of being all alone for the first time in his life, and not being there to protect his flock. Hope he makes the transition easily. The pet carrier was 7 pounds with the wood shavings in -- and he was dancing around squawking once I put him in on the silly old fashioned kitchen scale with a pedistal -- it bounced between 12-13 pounds...so He is around 5 1/2 pounds. He really is big, and looks very muscular, but when I hold him -- I realize he is still just a skinny little 5-pound guy-- He's all feathers. I think that his weight is just about in the UK SOP range...aren't they considered a cockerel for the first year. I can hardly imagine a 7-pounder. But by this time next year, I wouldn't be surprised if he tipped the scale there.

Anyone have a good process for weighing? When I first got hens, I weighed and checked once per month. Now, as normanack said - the bird don't like being handled. (of course)--

If one were to raise a cockerel for showing, they would probably kind of have to 'train' it to be calm and content in a cage, and give him a weekly bath, and have strangers come over and handle him. ---

The USDA webinair on the 28th - had 281 participants, I think they said. I got in late...had to update java, and missed the first 1/4. Then as happens, the audio broke up about 10-minutes later. Cisco systems was their source, and they had a live-streaming speech to text (It had to be to get the words on at the same rate that the speakers were speaking) -- but some of the words came out (inaudible)-- They will post it on line incidentally -- One of their topics was biosecurity. Basically - they said - don't let anyone near your chickens, don't lend or borrow chicken supplies -- etc. etc. So having a stranger (to your chickens) come over and pick up your cockerel so he would be used to being handled by someone he didn't know - would break biosecurity. catch-22?

Has anyone 'conditioned' a bird for showing? As others have stated, there is cage showing, and there is the actual walk the chicken in front of the judge showing. I think the later is mostly in the youth category. If you conditioned the bird, did you have it spend a lot of time in the cage so it began to think that this, rather than free-ranging is the norm of life?

The APA DVD that is in the Club's prize cache has quite a lot about showing, includes chicken bathing, and is orientated toward the youngsters who primarily show bantams, using something like a telescoping pointer to pose the chicken and to control where it walks, and for the youngsters the protocol of interacting with a judge. There is also video of a judge (Walt in fact) who has a row of cages of -- I think white Leghorns, so you can see the judging in action.

I agree with Nicalandia that the Middle Farms birds are very fine examples, but as KPenley pointed out, there is a bit too much white on the wings and they aren't tucked up tightly. This could be a photographic instant, or could also be a trait of the bird.

I'm going to miss that cockerel -

Hope he adjusts quickly to his new hens........

ETA - O.K. silly me, I put the pet carrier down in the chicken yard over there, and the hens flocked around him like he was a rock star -- O.K. pardon the pun, the hens gathered around him. Meanwhile, he started doing the rooster dance in his carrier. So I guess he will adjust very quickly.

Meanwhile - back-at-the-ranch - My own hens are not speaking to me, because they miss him. It is much quieter here now..and like it or not -- I think with a rooster of any age size and disposition you need to watch him out of the corner of your eye...just in case he thinks you are threatening a hen of his...and so it is more serene here now.