Cream Legbars

[KPenley]

I'm not a club member, or a particular expert on CCL's, but I understand a bit about genetics. The gene for the crests seems to be partially dominant (a very common thing in chickens), so a small crest indicates the genotype is heterozygous, and that will not breed true. Very rarely does a standard endorse a trait that does not breed true (blue coloring, as in BBS, is the only example I can think of, and it's sometimes controversial for that very reason). So if a crest is desired in the standard, you should only work toward fully crested birds that produce consistent sized crests in their offspring. There may be genetic modifiers to make the crests smaller or larger, but don't include a non-crested bird in your program to get the crests smaller, that is a solution you cannot cleanly breed for, as non-crested birds will keep popping up.

That said, I believe we all keep these birds for the joy they bring us first, and foremost. If you prefer small or no crests, or gold instead of cream, or rosecombs, or whatever, there is no harm in breeding for the birds you like, unless you mis-represent them when distributing them to others. As long as you are honest about their show quality (or lack thereof), they can be great and popular chickens for many people.

X2 great insight! In the beginning we thought there was value in breeding an uncrested bird to keep crest size small but all it really did was propagate uncrested Legbars. We have since learned that if you want to show or have breeding quality birds they should all be crested. That does not mean that they will all be bouffant size though. If you continually choose your smallest crested birds to breed from then they will have smaller crests than offspring from larger crested parents. It will take a couple of generations to cull the uncrested gene carriers from your flock, if that is your end goal. If your birds are for your pleasure only it does not matter, but please take care in educating anyone who might get birds from you about the uncresting being present so they won't be surprised or angry with you if it pops up. Best wishes!

 

[GaryDean26]

Here is a publication by R.C. Punnett on the Recessive Black gene. In his experiments he crossed recessive black birds to Cream Legbars see if the cream gene had any affect on recessive black. The spin off of those crosses are his observances on the inheritance of the cresting gene. Since the Cream Legbar breed all started with R.C. Punnett I like to read what he said about the breed to glean any clues or insights that he may have left us.

 

[ChicKat]

Hope I'm not beating this (whatever) to death as they say - but I'm trying to get clear on my messaging to folks who take my birds, regarding crests and birds for potential breeding vs. backyard blue-eggs.

I gather from Sol2go's helpful comments that I have birds with 1 cresting gene, as 2/7 don't have crests.

I had originally taken away from the discussion that these birds could be helpful because this breed has a very difficult big crest=floppy comb paradox, so you could combine a non-crested with a big-crested to tame your crests.

But looking over those posts again, perhaps the goal is to totally NOT breed the non-crested as part of a goal of eliminating the non-crested genes from the pool, to the extent that is feasible. So I should really discourage people from using not only the 2 non-crested, but possibly others with smaller crests, in breeding??? I personally don't like the bouffants...but it sounds like a certain minimal level of crest = lack of 2 cresting genes....

Is there any sort of consensus on this among club members? My initial tendency, as a backyard egg-and-pets person, is to get to liking my birds and wanting to find homes for these nice, cool-looking boys that I can't keep in the city, but I want to be responsible and do good by the breed.

I used to think that same thing--- hold on to super-small crested female to have the potential to reduce crest size in males if ever needed in the future. Fortunately I realized before I hatched eggs from her here - (any one of you out there who got hatching eggs from me -- it is the eggs that would have been from Sherry)--- She last the largest - X-Large of all my CLs -- but not the most saturated (the bigger the eggshell area the less the saturation in mine). So now that I am in a fairly high degree of certainty that she posses only one cresting gene - I will never hatch from her - or supply her eggs in hatching eggs that I send out. I think KP's saying the same thing. heterozygous for cresting isn't in the breed's best interest for reducing the size of crest and straightening the comb. -- Buy your idea is on the same track I was a couple years back.

I'm not a club member, or a particular expert on CCL's, but I understand a bit about genetics. The gene for the crests seems to be partially dominant (a very common thing in chickens), so a small crest indicates the genotype is heterozygous, and that will not breed true. Very rarely does a standard endorse a trait that does not breed true (blue coloring, as in BBS, is the only example I can think of, and it's sometimes controversial for that very reason). So if a crest is desired in the standard, you should only work toward fully crested birds that produce consistent sized crests in their offspring. There may be genetic modifiers to make the crests smaller or larger, but don't include a non-crested bird in your program to get the crests smaller, that is a solution you cannot cleanly breed for, as non-crested birds will keep popping up.

That said, I believe we all keep these birds for the joy they bring us first, and foremost. If you prefer small or no crests, or gold instead of cream, or rosecombs, or whatever, there is no harm in breeding for the birds you like, unless you mis-represent them when distributing them to others. As long as you are honest about their show quality (or lack thereof), they can be great and popular chickens for many people.

Really eloquent and insightful. Thanks.

 

[ChicKat]

I just wanted to share these with you all I'm extremely new to cream legbars but they are so stinking cute and so excited to have them

Congrats on getting CLs....

 

[Bawk]

Sharing a few of my CL from July 1 hatch. Mostly the two roosters as they are going to a new home soon (breeding flock).

Love this breed,very sweet, soft, tame, beautiful! Yes, they are curious --- investigated and pecked the camera, ha ha!

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Sharing a few of my CL from July 1 hatch. Mostly the two roosters as they are going to a new home soon (breeding flock).

Love this breed,very sweet, soft, tame, beautiful! Yes, they are curious --- investigated and pecked the camera, ha ha!

What lovely birds you have! Mine love to go after the phone as well. Makes it look like they're taking selfies...

- Ant Farm

 

[mommaofchickens]

just picked up my little roo

 

[KPenley]

Great pictures everybody! And congratulations mommaofchickens on your new addition!

 

[Sylvester017]

Hi all -

For blue eggs we have a Blue Wheaten Amer who was a great layer her first year. She dropped off dramatically her 2nd year and so has our friend's Amers and EEs. Our SoCalif weather has been hot/humid for several solid weeks and I'm sure that's a big part of lack of production but still our older Silkies have out-produced our younger Amer!!! We've decided not to get any more muffed pea-combed chickens (Amers, EEs, Russ Orloffs, Barthuhner, etc) since they don't seem to do very well in our climate. So, for blue eggs, my interest is once again turned to CLs.

Anyone have input as to CL temperament consistency or are they all over the page like Marans - widely varied in temperament from calm to aggressive/combative? We have 5-lb-&-under gentle breeds (Amer, Breda, Silkies) and wonder if a 6-lb CLs might be too assertive around such gentle breeds? We've been avoiding breeds with Leghorn in the history (like the CL) because of the possibility of the assertive Leg temperament showing up but if you all can freely share your long experience with CLs in a flock with smaller gentler breeds I'd love to hear it! I need to hear the good and the bad regarding temperament. We've had bad experience with aggressive Leghorns and heavy Marans bullying our littles.

Also, like Amers, I understand there's always the possibility of greenish rather than truer blue eggs with CLs (not really a problem for us but still would like to hear your input). Many thanks!

 

[KPenley]

Hi all -

For blue eggs we have a Blue Wheaten Amer who was a great layer her first year.  She dropped off dramatically her 2nd year and so has our friend's Amers and EEs.  Our SoCalif weather has been hot/humid for several solid weeks and I'm sure that's a big part of lack of production but still our older Silkies have out-produced our younger Amer!!!  We've decided not to get any more muffed pea-combed chickens (Amers, EEs, Russ Orloffs, Barthuhner, etc) since they don't seem to do very well in our climate.  So, for blue eggs, my interest is once again turned to CLs.

Anyone have input as to CL temperament consistency or are they all over the page like Marans - widely varied in temperament from calm to aggressive/combative?  We have 5-lb-&-under gentle breeds (Amer, Breda, Silkies) and wonder if a 6-lb CLs might be too assertive around such gentle breeds?  We've been avoiding breeds with Leghorn in the history (like the CL) because of the possibility of the assertive Leg temperament showing up but if you all can freely share your long experience with CLs in a flock with smaller gentler breeds I'd love to hear it!  I need to hear the good and the bad regarding temperament.  We've had bad experience with aggressive Leghorns and heavy Marans bullying our littles. 

Also, like Amers, I understand there's always the possibility of greenish rather than truer blue eggs with CLs (not really a problem for us but still would like to hear your input).  Many thanks!

Temperaments can vary greatly, but seem to be somewhat genetic. I had one Cock that I had to eliminate from my program, including all of his progeny. The rest have been fine. I find young CL flighty but with adulthood they settle down, unless scared of course. They are great foragers and hide quite well from predators during the day. I have had Legbars with Silkies and Bantam Wyandottes without any problems.
Eggs can be blue to green, and a few olive colors have shown up the last year. Hope that helps, and welcome to Cream Legbars!