Cream Legbars

Hi,

Because I live in a residential neighborhood and I can only keep 2 at my uncleʻs house. I donʻt know if itʻs hereditary but I just canʻt keep them. I often use a rooster collar and can keep them quiet until they get so mature that they canʻt handle it anymore and start crowing away. I actually have one mature rooster who hardly crows and lives with the ladies. But heʻs been crowing more lately, sooooo.........
Heʻs not very fertile anyways methinks.

Wouldnʻt it be nice if we could selectively breed out crowing. Some people like it but I prefer to sleep until the sun comes up.

Aloha, puhi

Aloha Brada Puhi!

I have been thinking quite a lot about roosters crows--I too live in a rather population dense area with expensive homes nearby and don't want to be a bad neighbor.

I think that you may be on to something with selecting for late crowers. I have actually thought about selecting for late crowers myself in my next batch of boys and testing my theory (outlined below)

I know that crowing is somewhat genetic-- the length of the crow, the frequency of the crow, the age at which the boys start crowing and even the quality. I say this because breeds tend to have similar traits within the breed for the crow and other vocalizations. There are even long-crowers that will hold a crow for a really long time http://feathersite.com/Poultry/CGK/Long/BRKLongCrow.html Now why anyone would selectively breed for a rooster who can out-crow everyone else is beyond me
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! Most everyone I know want to throttle the buggers when they crow too much, especially when they crow at 3 am!

At one end of the spectrum, I have a friend that has several varieties of Brahmas and she reports that they only crow rarely and its usually in the morning when she feeds. This breed is very slow to mature and the boys don't start crowing until they are older--maybe 5-8 months or even later. The males also will get really large--10+ pound. I have 2 Brahma ladies and they are about 8 pounds each.

On the other end of the crow bell curve, I friends that have had bantams have reported that they will start to crow at a really early age--like 3-4 weeks, and they are obviously small, being bantams.

For myself, I have raised several breeds and have found that in general the slower growers are more submissive and crow later than the fast growers. When I have looked at sizes of the roosters when they grow out, generally speaking, the ones that mature more slowly and crow later are the ones that end up weighing more when they plateau out at 5-6 months. So I am not thinking of culling early crowers becasue they crow early, but becasue I suspect that they will be smaller roosters as adults. I am seeing this in my Welsummers, Cream Legbars and with a mixed breed project (mainly BrahmaxFaverolles) I was working on.

I am speculating that the early production of testosterone that leads to earlier maturation and earlier crowing will also lead to a smaller size in the rooster. I have no hard data (measuring of testosterone levels) but I am personally starting to see a correlation between crowing/maturation/size. I am also extrapolating from mammals. It is well known that in dogs, cats and humans that the early production of sex hormones will close the growth plates in the bones resulting in a smaller stature--and conversely you can delay the process with the bones plates by early spaying or neutering of your pet (or back in human history when they castrated males to create castrati or eunich slaves); the mammals who are castrated before puberty will become larger than they would normally have become as their normal development was altered.

I need more data points to draw firm conclusions, but for this year I am planning on paying close attention to the size of the cockerel at maturity and at what age they started to crow. Not going to cull anyone becasue they are maturing slowly, that's for sure. I want bigger boys--or at least boys that meet the standard! I do have 2 that meet the standard and they were later crowers. I've got 13 roosters right now and really need to make some hard decisions really soon. I told myself I wouldn't set any eggs until most of those boys are gone, so I'd better make some decisions soon!

It would be great if you could add in your observations about size and the age of onset of crowing and any thoughts you might have on the subject. Mahalo!
 
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These are just some of the examples of what I have. I do have a few pullets with darker crests and darker hackles. But, I do have several hens that look like the above. I like the above better for coloration. However, the hens with darker coloration do have larger crests. So, that's something for me to consider. I will have to look at their barring on the wings.
 
Aloha Dredt,

That is very interesting. It is true about other animals. And crowing must be a sure sign of testosterone building. And since we might be killing two birds with one stone, that might be an important trait to keep an eye on. And maybe even an awesome science fair project for anyone's kids. Let me know if you need help on that. This science fair project would be best if done over a 2 year span though. Or even longer. The more data the better. But if you band your boys and already kept track of their birth dates, you're half way there.

Aloha, Puhi
 
These are just some of the examples of what I have. I do have a few pullets with darker crests and darker hackles. But, I do have several hens that look like the above. I like the above better for coloration. However, the hens with darker coloration do have larger crests. So, that's something for me to consider. I will have to look at their barring on the wings.

Here's an example of what my hens look like with matching crests & hackle feathers (in a range of colors).
As I mentioned I like the contrast of your hens' crests =)


 
These are just some of the examples of what I have. I do have a few pullets with darker crests and darker hackles. But, I do have several hens that look like the above. I like the above better for coloration. However, the hens with darker coloration do have larger crests. So, that's something for me to consider. I will have to look at their barring on the wings.
Here's an example of what my hens look like with matching crests & hackle feathers (in a range of colors). As I mentioned I like the contrast of your hens' crests =)
I see what you mean now. My hens do have more contrast between the crest and hackle colors. Interesting how yours are the same color.
 
Here's an example of what my hens look like with matching crests & hackle feathers (in a range of colors).
As I mentioned I like the contrast of your hens' crests =)



I like this! To me it looks very nice and in my eyes "correct" when the crest matches the hackles. Matching crests and hackles in cream and gray is what I am working towards.

edited to add - I do also like the crest/hackles on @tdhenson86 pullets, they are not too far off from matching only with a little contrast, still very nice.
I believe there is a wide range of what is acceptable for crests since the SOP is vague in that area. So both matching and non matching should be fine as long as they are showing some degree of cream and gray(some chestnut permissible).
 
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Since there have been mixed hatching reports lately, I thought I would add a potentially positive one to the group! My first test hatch had all 8 eggs make it to lock down and I already have 1 out and two pips! So exciting! These are Blackbirds and Rees/Blackbirds lines. I'll update this weekend with pics and final numbers :D
 
Since there have been mixed hatching reports lately, I thought I would add a potentially positive one to the group! My first test hatch had all 8 eggs make it to lock down and I already have 1 out and two pips! So exciting! These are Blackbirds and Rees/Blackbirds lines. I'll update this weekend with pics and final numbers
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That is so exciting!!! So glad to hear your results are so far so good!!!

Good luck with the hatch and cant wait to see some chick pics
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Since there have been mixed hatching reports lately, I thought I would add a potentially positive one to the group! My first test hatch had all 8 eggs make it to lock down and I already have 1 out and two pips! So exciting! These are Blackbirds and Rees/Blackbirds lines. I'll update this weekend with pics and final numbers
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Congrats!!
Looking forward to the pictures -- we need some chick picts to get us through the dreary cold of Feb.
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