Cream Legbars

[terrip824]

The boys are starting to show their colors.


Sentinel the most colorful.


Maverick the smallest but leader of the pack.


Merlin the largest, he's the strong ,silent type.


Peanut & Buttercup discussing their pick for best cockerel. More like photo bombing

 

[Phage]

Cream Legbars were developed as high production, feed efficient hens.

I did not really appreciate what high production was until a hen hatched from Trader Joe's eggs started to lay. wow - what a layer!!

Do you think that with current in breeding and selection for specific traits we are potentially breeding out great laying ability which was after all why they were developed?

I know that my "a" line were very respectable layers. The "b" line were dreadful, and the Rees just OK.

 

[Ravynscroft]

Cream Legbars were developed as high production, feed efficient hens. 

 I did not really appreciate what high production was until a hen hatched from Trader Joe's eggs started to lay. wow - what a layer!!

Do you think that with current in breeding and selection for specific traits we are potentially breeding out great laying ability which was after all why they were developed?

I know that my "a" line were very respectable layers. The "b" line were dreadful, and the Rees just OK. 

Maybe... I keep hearing about productivity issues from a lot of people, but mine lay a solid 6 eggs a week... well, when they're laying, lol... they're molting awful right now and haven't had a single egg from their pen for at least 2 weeks... :/

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Cream Legbars were developed as high production, feed efficient hens.

I did not really appreciate what high production was until a hen hatched from Trader Joe's eggs started to lay. wow - what a layer!!

Do you think that with current in breeding and selection for specific traits we are potentially breeding out great laying ability which was after all why they were developed?

I know that my "a" line were very respectable layers. The "b" line were dreadful, and the Rees just OK.

Maybe... I keep hearing about productivity issues from a lot of people, but mine lay a solid 6 eggs a week... well, when they're laying, lol... they're molting awful right now and haven't had a single egg from their pen for at least 2 weeks...

Well, of my hatchery CL pullets, the one that is "least SOP" has laid 6-7 eggs a week since she started (at roughly 25 weeks, as I recall), very few days off. My second laying pullet (closer to "standard" than the first) started later and is closer to 5-6 per week, but she's starting to hit a stride. It's quite impressive that I have that many eggs a week out of two pullets. It's very early, of course, but have been VERY impressed with their production so far.

There's so much to select for in any breed. I worry that because the color pattern of Cream Legbars (which is lovely) is so complex, that it ends up getting more attention than auto sexing, egg color, and as you point out, production. Not that coloring is not important - they help to define the breed, it's just that there are a lot of different things to keep an eye on when selecting breeders/pairings, and the complex pattern, auto sexing, and egg color add even more complexities to consider compared to some other breeds (where there is no auto sexing to select for, or where the egg color is not a distinctive feature). (I am not a CL breeder, just pontificating here...

).

You'd have to wait a while and use older hens to breed for production (once you know enough about their performance and how much their molt interferes, etc.) - and in particular, you'd want to keep cockerels from such a hen, as egg productivity is (at least as has been explained to me) carried by the male.

(We talk about a lot of this sort of stuff over on the Breeding for Production thread...)

- Ant Farm

 

[ChicKat]

Well, of my hatchery CL pullets, the one that is "least SOP" has laid 6-7 eggs a week since she started (at roughly 25 weeks, as I recall), very few days off. My second laying pullet (closer to "standard" than the first) started later and is closer to 5-6 per week, but she's starting to hit a stride. It's quite impressive that I have that many eggs a week out of two pullets. It's very early, of course, but have been VERY impressed with their production so far.

There's so much to select for in any breed. I worry that because the color pattern of Cream Legbars (which is lovely) is so complex, that it ends up getting more attention than auto sexing, egg color, and as you point out, production. Not that coloring is not important - they help to define the breed, it's just that there are a lot of different things to keep an eye on when selecting breeders/pairings, and the complex pattern, auto sexing, and egg color add even more complexities to consider compared to some other breeds (where there is no auto sexing to select for, or where the egg color is not a distinctive feature). (I am not a CL breeder, just pontificating here...

).

You'd have to wait a while and use older hens to breed for production (once you know enough about their performance and how much their molt interferes, etc.) - and in particular, you'd want to keep cockerels from such a hen, as egg productivity is (at least as has been explained to me) carried by the male.

(We talk about a lot of this sort of stuff over on the Breeding for Production thread...)

- Ant Farm

Well said! - really good insights fire ant farm!

 

[Red Banks]

Well, of my hatchery CL pullets, the one that is "least SOP" has laid 6-7 eggs a week since she started (at roughly 25 weeks, as I recall), very few days off. My second laying pullet (closer to "standard" than the first) started later and is closer to 5-6 per week, but she's starting to hit a stride. It's quite impressive that I have that many eggs a week out of two pullets. It's very early, of course, but have been VERY impressed with their production so far.

There's so much to select for in any breed. I worry that because the color pattern of Cream Legbars (which is lovely) is so complex, that it ends up getting more attention than auto sexing, egg color, and as you point out, production. Not that coloring is not important - they help to define the breed, it's just that there are a lot of different things to keep an eye on when selecting breeders/pairings, and the complex pattern, auto sexing, and egg color add even more complexities to consider compared to some other breeds (where there is no auto sexing to select for, or where the egg color is not a distinctive feature). (I am not a CL breeder, just pontificating here...

).

You'd have to wait a while and use older hens to breed for production (once you know enough about their performance and how much their molt interferes, etc.) - and in particular, you'd want to keep cockerels from such a hen, as egg productivity is (at least as has been explained to me) carried by the male.

(We talk about a lot of this sort of stuff over on the Breeding for Production thread...)

- Ant Farm

I think we do a lot of things that one might consider counter productive. We cull/process a "mean" roo over a "sweet" roo. So we purposely breed out the qualities that make a strong flock sire.

I was very surprised at show quality versus production.... but I shouldn't have been. It is the same in all creatures that we have a hand in.

I don't think CLs are that different from any other breed in respect to SOP, I think they might even be a little easier than BCMs. They will really drive you crazy or me anyway. I am sure this is the case for every breed looking for the ideal.

I think for each of us we have to choose what works for us, evaluate what we want...... our program. I like reading the threads..... learning from SOP breeders and production breeders. Most of all learning how to keep them happy and healthy. I don't think there is a right or wrong..... just preference.

 

[BuffyBugSlayer]

I have been busy lately so pretty absent but I wanted to take a minute and welcome all the new CLB people to this thread! Great to see all the excitement about Legbars.
I am working towards the standard and hatched out only 8 pullets this last spring/summer. I have very melanized (not sure what to call it) Legbars and have been trying to get a handle on it and understand it a little better. Of the 8 pullets I hatched this year only one has lighter hackles and has a clear salmon breast with no "lacing". I ended up selling the other 7. I am posting some pictures so others can see what I am talking about.

In the pictures you can see the lighter pullet in the back. Sorry, for some reason it is the only picture I have of her, but the differences are pretty apparent. The one in front of her is predominately what I have been seeing. Lots of dark lacing on the chest and a very dark hackle with lots of mottling on the body. The second picture is of another pullet that is a little less melanized but you can still see light lacing on her chest and dark hackle feathers.

Only one of my original 4 hens displays this chest lacing. I didn't use her in my breeding but clearly it is present in my group. I had reported earlier that the lacing in this original hen had faded and was nearly gone. However, she has just gone through her first adult molt and her dark lacing is back. I have also noticed that the bodies of my other three original hens have dark mottling after molting even though they have clean breasts.

I am just posting this to let people know what I am seeing in my small flock over time!

 

[ChicKat]

I have been busy lately so pretty absent but I wanted to take a minute and welcome all the new CLB people to this thread! Great to see all the excitement about Legbars.
I am working towards the standard and hatched out only 8 pullets this last spring/summer. I have very melanized (not sure what to call it) Legbars and have been trying to get a handle on it and understand it a little better. Of the 8 pullets I hatched this year only one has lighter hackles and has a clear salmon breast with no "lacing". I ended up selling the other 7. I am posting some pictures so others can see what I am talking about.

In the pictures you can see the lighter pullet in the back. Sorry, for some reason it is the only picture I have of her, but the differences are pretty apparent. The one in front of her is predominately what I have been seeing. Lots of dark lacing on the chest and a very dark hackle with lots of mottling on the body. The second picture is of another pullet that is a little less melanized but you can still see light lacing on her chest and dark hackle feathers.

Only one of my original 4 hens displays this chest lacing. I didn't use her in my breeding but clearly it is present in my group. I had reported earlier that the lacing in this original hen had faded and was nearly gone. However, she has just gone through her first adult molt and her dark lacing is back. I have also noticed that the bodies of my other three original hens have dark mottling after molting even though they have clean breasts.

I am just posting this to let people know what I am seeing in my small flock over time!

Excellent information, and thanks for posting.

also big CONGRATULATIONS are due to you for the fabulous cockerel that was placed first by APA judge in the facebook contest. ( Since most aren't facebook users - you can see the winner if you go to the CL Club's website- and click on Show winners - It is item 11 in the left navigation bar)


Sometimes all the focus goes on color - btw - as most CL owners are fairly new chicken fanciers -- and the really important aspects of type are lost. The examples of the show winners have beautiful color of course -- and they display IMO the far (far far far) more important aspect - of correct type. -- Interestingly - beginners (and this goes with some other kinds of livestock as well - ) beginners focus on color because it is easy to relate to when we lack the expertise of knowing what makes good type. -- I think it the uk color is 20% of the entire score of the chicken - but the way discussions go -- you would think it was 100%.

At anyrate -- big Congratulations on the winning cockerel -- and congrats also go to Michael Baker for winning pullet - and to the CL Club's German member Jeannine Hölzel, with the winning hen.... Good job one and all - with your Cream Legbar chickens.

Thanks for the photos BBs - your chickens look fantastic. --

Really good insights too about the melanization. in your top picture, the feathers really DO show lacing.

 

[sol2go]

Cream Legbars were developed as high production, feed efficient hens.

I did not really appreciate what high production was until a hen hatched from Trader Joe's eggs started to lay. wow - what a layer!!

Do you think that with current in breeding and selection for specific traits we are potentially breeding out great laying ability which was after all why they were developed?

I know that my "a" line were very respectable layers. The "b" line were dreadful, and the Rees just OK.

It is really helpful to have more than one breeding flock for just those reasons. There's the drive for color, but it shouldn't be at the expense of utility imo.
I hope we end up with more than one color variety to retain and share the best traits as needed.

 

[Red Banks]

Hello Everyone,

Hope ya'll had a wonderful Thanksgiving. I have a question about combs. I have three cockerels (Jill Rees lines) 8 week olds. All have s combs. I have read the standard but could use an explanation of combs, problems..... etc. If anatomy causes this..... how do I fix it?

I am one of those new people you have welcomed so you are obliged to answer my uneducated questions!

Thanks!