Cream Legbars

[chicken pickin]

I have a question regarding wing carriage. I have a cockerel that I like but he always carries his wings low. I keep finding conflicting info on whether or not it would be passed on. So I thought I would ask for opinions.

Is he Rees line? Do you have a picture of him in his natural upright stance?

My experience is that the Rees line males (also some other CL males) carry their wings very low. Im sure if over time you selected a male each generation that has a slightly higher wing carriage and also paired him with females with good wing carriage or high wing that eventually you will end up with males with the proper wing carriage. Its all about selection and culling.

 

[OneMountainAcres]

How old are they now?

I think that the girls are somewhere around 12 weeks old and the cockerel is 18-20 weeks old? Not positive on that though.

 

[GaryDean26]

I have a question regarding wing carriage. I have a cockerel that I like but he always carries his wings low. I keep finding conflicting info on whether or not it would be passed on. So I thought I would ask for opinions.

This is NOT a genetic thing an that there is not a gene for a cockerel that will be predestined to holding his wing up tight and another gene that will predestine him to hold it low. It is a vigor thing. Compared to the genome of the entire chicken species the gene pool of an individual breed of chickens is very narrow. This limiting of the gene pool leads to a genetic depression that can result in weak birds. Holding the wings low is an early sign of this genetic depression. The first priority in selecting breeding stock when working with standard bred fowl is vigor. That is especially true in rare breeds. If that is not the focus then each generation your flock gets less thrifty, less active, more susceptible to illnesses, etc. When left unchecked you see a drop in fertility, low body weight, increased mortality in the flock, reduced production, etc. The weak wings is very common in the cockerels but almost never see on a hen. If you ever see a hen with weak wings turn her out to the garden right then because she will be of no value in a breeding program. With the cockerels don't use a cockerel with weak wings if you have any other options. If he were the only one I had I would use him but I would not use any of his sons unless they showed good vigor. Yes a lot of the Rees line birds have lots of weak wings. Any line that you have you will need to grow out as many as you have room for so that you have enough selection to get breeding stock with out any weaknesses to move foreword with. Every flock requires culling. You can't stay at the Status Quo. If you aren't moving foreword with your flock is will be sliding backwards.

 

[Red Banks]

I think that the girls are somewhere around 12 weeks old and the cockerel is 18-20 weeks old? Not positive on that though.

They are so pretty..... just trying to compare them to mine (10 weeks). I get to see how they will look in a couple of weeks by looking at yours. We can't wait for them to grow up..... can we?

 

[OneMountainAcres]

They are so pretty..... just trying to compare them to mine (10 weeks).  I get to see how they will look in a couple of weeks by looking at yours.  We can't wait for them to grow up..... can we?

Thank you

We can never wait till they grow up to see how beautiful they end up...but then, start the cycle all over again because we gotta have those fluffy babies!

 

[ChicKat]

This is NOT a genetic thing an that there is not a gene for a cockerel that will be predestined to holding his wing up tight and another gene that will predestine him to hold it low. It is a vigor thing. Compared to the genome of the entire chicken species the gene pool of an individual breed of chickens is very narrow. This limiting of the gene pool leads to a genetic depression that can result in weak birds. Holding the wings low is an early sign of this genetic depression. The first priority in selecting breeding stock when working with standard bred fowl is vigor. That is especially true in rare breeds. If that is not the focus then each generation your flock gets less thrifty, less active, more susceptible to illnesses, etc. When left unchecked you see a drop in fertility, low body weight, increased mortality in the flock, reduced production, etc. The weak wings is very common in the cockerels but almost never see on a hen. If you ever see a hen with weak wings turn her out to the garden right then because she will be of no value in a breeding program. With the cockerels don't use a cockerel with weak wings if you have any other options. If he were the only one I had I would use him but I would not use any of his sons unless they showed good vigor. Yes a lot of the Rees line birds have lots of weak wings. Any line that you have you will need to grow out as many as you have room for so that you have enough selection to get breeding stock with out any weaknesses to move foreword with. Every flock requires culling. You can't stay at the Status Quo. If you aren't moving foreword with your flock is will be sliding backwards.

Of course the wings shouldn't look weak, but I think in some breeds it is genetic to have a bit different wing angle than horizontal.




While the CL SOP calls for horizontal, the Serama calls for as close to vertical as possible -- it does lead me to wonder if there isn't some genetic basis and it isn't vigor alone that decides.

 

[GaryDean26]

Of course the wings shouldn't look weak, but I think in some breeds it is genetic to have a bit different wing angle than horizontal.




While the CL SOP calls for horizontal, the Serama calls for as close to vertical as possible -- it does lead me to wonder if there isn't some genetic basis and it isn't vigor alone that decides.

Good point...the shape from one breed to another can vary greatly. You are not likely to see droopy wings on a Serama. There are other ways to evaluate vigor though though

 

[ChicKat]

Good point...the shape from one breed to another can vary greatly. You are not likely to see droopy wings on a Serama. There are other ways to evaluate vigor though though

agreed - and as you said it should be way way up there in importance.

 

[terrip824]

Is he Rees line? Do you have a picture of him in his natural upright stance?

My experience is that the Rees line males (also some other CL males) carry their wings very low. Im sure if over time you selected a male each generation that has a slightly higher wing carriage and also paired him with females with good wing carriage or high wing that eventually you will end up with males with the proper wing carriage. Its all about selection and culling.

Thank you for the reply. Yes he is a Rees line bird. I plan on breeding for cream so I thought he would be a good choice. Right now I have 2 of his brothers also. They do not have low wing carriage. Trying to get a good pic of him upright

he's not cooperating.

 

[terrip824]

This is NOT a genetic thing an that there is not a gene for a cockerel that will be predestined to holding his wing up tight and another gene that will predestine him to hold it low. It is a vigor thing. Compared to the genome of the entire chicken species the gene pool of an individual breed of chickens is very narrow. This limiting of the gene pool leads to a genetic depression that can result in weak birds. Holding the wings low is an early sign of this genetic depression. The first priority in selecting breeding stock when working with standard bred fowl is vigor. That is especially true in rare breeds. If that is not the focus then each generation your flock gets less thrifty, less active, more susceptible to illnesses, etc. When left unchecked you see a drop in fertility, low body weight, increased mortality in the flock, reduced production, etc. The weak wings is very common in the cockerels but almost never see on a hen. If you ever see a hen with weak wings turn her out to the garden right then because she will be of no value in a breeding program. With the cockerels don't use a cockerel with weak wings if you have any other options. If he were the only one I had I would use him but I would not use any of his sons unless they showed good vigor. Yes a lot of the Rees line birds have lots of weak wings. Any line that you have you will need to grow out as many as you have room for so that you have enough selection to get breeding stock with out any weaknesses to move foreword with. Every flock requires culling. You can't stay at the Status Quo. If you aren't moving foreword with your flock is will be sliding backwards.

I 'm glad you helped me understand it better. I noticed it a month ago and starting watching him for signs of illness. But he is fine. I just finished checking earlier pics and in most his wings are low. Can you help me understand what you mean by vigor? He is healthy, alert, and appears to be near or at the top of the pecking order. He was crowing at 10 weeks, and starting to act like a normal cockerel in puberty. I have 2 of his brothers and they do not have the low wings. But they have more color and 1 has a lot of chestnut coming in. Normally I pick the more colorful ones. But since I want to breed for cream I thought he was a better choice. Any advice is appreciated.