Cream Legbars

[sol2go]

Has anyone figured out which progenitor contributed to the crest/egg color? I saw some pictures of Kiri Kiri Rapanui hens, and they look a heck of a lot like cream Legbar hens in type, especially the crest.

That could indeed be the crested blue egg laying "Araucana" that was brought to England from Chili!

wonder if there are any in the states?

They sure do!
I wonder what color legs they have?

 

[sol2go]

I asked a few days ago but it must've been overlooked. What is a double cream cockerel? I hatched one that liked a lot like the picture about 6 weeks ago. Only his head still has the light colored fluff so I was still able to pick him out and mark which one he is but is it something special? Should he be a definite keeper?

Hi, you probably saw the further discussion of cream.
I'd like to add that color is one consideration with regards to a "keeper".

Body type is perhaps the strongest indicator. The concept "build the barn first then paint it", seems to apply. It is more difficult to breed out body type flaws (multiple generations), than it is to put the cream color back on the body (could happen in one or two generations).

In that context, however, there are color problems that take longer than two generations to breed out i.e. too much red or black (simplified, I'll let someone else take up the specific terminology), wrong color legs, wrong color earlobes, etc.

Also, barring may look better on one male than another, which takes some time to differentiate.

So it's a constant balancing act. The longer you can keep your cockerels and grow them out the better. Early on I was advised to keep them a year if possible, and I have seen some early flaws resolve themselves, i.e. wobbly combs can straighten out, skinny boys get thicker with age, etc. Some things that don't change are stance, angles, drooping wings. While I haven't seen hens change tail angle, I have seen cockerels have a lower tail angle with age.

Clearly, if you can avoid any of those problems early on that's a bonus, but a little time could make the difference if you like the majority of characteristics or you are working to resolve a specific problem.

 

[Bantambird]

this is Brother

this one is Run. It is interesting that these 2 cocks, who look a lot alike, can have sons with so much color!

Brother and Run have the same dad, different mothers.

 

[OneMountainAcres]

Hi, you probably saw the further discussion of cream.
I'd like to add that color is one consideration with regards to a "keeper".

Body type is perhaps the strongest indicator.  The concept "build the barn first then paint it", seems to apply.  It is more difficult to breed out body type flaws (multiple generations), than it is to put the cream color back on the body (could happen in one or two generations).

In that context, however, there are color problems that take longer than two generations to breed out i.e. too much red or black (simplified, I'll let someone else take up the specific terminology), wrong color legs, wrong color earlobes, etc.

Also, barring may look better on one male than another, which takes some time to differentiate.

So it's a constant balancing act.  The longer you can keep your cockerels and grow them out the better.  Early on I was advised to keep them a year if possible, and I have seen some early flaws resolve themselves, i.e. wobbly combs can straighten out, skinny boys get thicker with age, etc.  Some things that don't change are stance, angles, drooping wings.  While I haven't seen hens change tail angle, I have seen cockerels have a lower tail angle with age.  

Clearly, if you can avoid any of those problems early on that's a bonus, but a little time could make the difference if you like the majority of characteristics or you are working to resolve a specific problem.

Thank you for that. I just didn't understand if the "double cream" was a really rare or hard to get thing or not lol.

I have about 15-20 males growing out now. They're only about 6 weeks old. Some are pure Reese line, some mixed with Reese, and this "double cream" guy. I have him marked to see how he turns out anyway. I'll be asking advice in here later as they get bigger for who to keep and who not to. I plan to keep 2.

 

[rottlady]

They sure do!
I wonder what color legs they have?

well darn it. They DO NOT lay blue eggs. so guess they are out
https://www.facebook.com/michelle.t...0200862729186202.1073741825.1103569919&type=3

 

[ChicKat]

this is Brother
this one is Run. It is interesting that these 2 cocks, who look a lot alike, can have sons with so much color!
Brother and Run have the same dad, different mothers.

If you go back in time, in the days of Punnett - he said that the chick down for CL looked like gold (Legbars) Subsequently -- the British Poultry Club Standard said that the down looked like silver (legbars) [which look identical to gold except the tans in the down are cooler toned and the dorsal light stripe is more white than the warmer cream color of the gold legbars] -- Punnett didn't have an explanation for the variation in down colors..... Here is an illustration from his article in a genetics journal....

and here is one derived from an article by Pease

Back in their time, CLs came in a lot of chick down variaations.

 

[caychris]

Here are some pics of my boy and girl will be penning them up for breeding this week (along with 4 other birds 2 EE and Barred Holland and a Jersey Giant) May not be the best but what I have.

 

[Bantambird]

well darn it. They DO NOT lay blue eggs. so guess they are out
https://www.facebook.com/michelle.t...0200862729186202.1073741825.1103569919&type=3

Awww they look so much like relations!

 

[AR Razorback]

Thank you for that. I just didn't understand if the "double cream" was a really rare or hard to get thing or not lol.

I have about 15-20 males growing out now. They're only about 6 weeks old. Some are pure Reese line, some mixed with Reese, and this "double cream" guy. I have him marked to see how he turns out anyway. I'll be asking advice in here later as they get bigger for who to keep and who not to. I plan to keep 2.

I was wondering about the double cream too. Thanks for explaining that. I have 5 week old roos I will be growing out and will take all the advise I can on 2 "keepers".

 

[sol2go]

Thank you for that. I just didn't understand if the "double cream" was a really rare or hard to get thing or not lol.

I have about 15-20 males growing out now. They're only about 6 weeks old. Some are pure Reese line, some mixed with Reese, and this "double cream" guy. I have him marked to see how he turns out anyway. I'll be asking advice in here later as they get bigger for who to keep and who not to. I plan to keep 2.

Actually, it was a couple of years before I felt like I was seeing "double cream", so it did seem rare.
I had a lot of birds which seemed to be gold, but were split for cream (heterozygous for cream).

Once I was able to see hens and roosters homozygous for cream, it was easier to go back and compare the rest of the flock for color.
Some hens were double for cream, but so heavily melanized it was difficult to decide until I could see what cream is supposed to look like.
The roosters have a few other colors/patterns that influence the final product, and it was frustrating to wonder is this part cream, or is that part cream?
In the meantime, I've come to understand where cream should be, and that "cream" can look very creamy, as the dairy product in a pitcher, or it can look more buttery, like a soft scoop of butter.

My first CL rooster was a fortunate whim. The breeder decided he was "too colorful", so I took him, even though neither one of us knew how to quantify that. I was frustrated for awhile because all I wanted were cream offspring. Now, 4 years later, I can see his positive traits even though he is heterozygous for cream (looks gold, is split for cream).

I have a few breeding lines. Last fall, a new pairing of a double cream rooster to a hen split for cream, produced 3 cream males and one male split for cream (not one female...). They all have positive traits and I will do some test matings with them, but by far the best overall body type and very nice barring is, you guessed it, the cockerel that is split for cream. From a color standpoint, it feels like a waste to put him with my favorite pullets, but I should see atleast 50% cream offspring, and that is worth it for what I hope will be excellent body type. Well, there's always another generation to work on...=)