crele ???

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

Hi! Darn, I had a nice little black-breasted red Serama, but I sold him last weekend (lol, not to breed Ser' --- he has a new flock of 5 'big girls' --- rooster heaven).
I have another cockerel that might work for your project. I don't know if he'd be considered crele. He's tan/brown barred. I'll get a pic and if he'd work we'll figure how to get him up there.

Lisa

 

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

OH! If it would be better, I have 2 little guys that look light crele --- just like this one.

Lisa

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

If I remember correctly, most of the seramas (atleast in my area) are wheaton based, not wild type so the roosters would be crele but the hens would be wheaton with barring.

Another question for Kev and other genetics people. On my crele phoenix project we started with a crele OEGB cock with white earlobes on LB phoenix hens and ended up with one chick that was a female. She looked like a crele OEGB hen with a longer tail and we bred her to the LB phoenix cock and got a 'double' sexlink, the females are dark legged and LB and the males are crele with light legs. The plan is to breed the best male overall back to LB hens. If it goes as planned the chicks will all be crele with slate legs and white earlobes. Then to get another line going I plan on getting a barred leghorn cock to breed to some LB phoenix hens to start another line. Will that work.

I dont mean to hijack the thread from you, but it is about crele...

 

[priszilla]

She is barred as a barred rock---- and she is a lovely girl. Next project-- finding good roo to go with her- oh and building another pen..... Thanks.I need to invest in some genetics books but I am not sure I an understand it.All that E an eb and wild type stuff- I need color pix and good descriptions like black , white and simple words-LOL
See spot- spot is a wild type expressed as (whatever the symbol is) and shown on the following simple punnet square) if we breed spot to tiger who is autosommaly barrered (shown by this symbol.. etc
make it simple enough for a 1st grader!!!!

 

[tiki244]

Oh Hi Lisa! Those are the pics I saw earlier this year!!!!

Good luck priszilla, and my eggs are coming along nicely!!!

Thanks!!!

 

[Kev]

Quote:
Oh man.. crele longtails.

That was one of my ideas before deciding to give up on them(too many birds..).

That will work, as crele is simply barring on wild type/LB. That is the way I would have went about it, by breeding to LB then breed two barred birds with proper LB color/pattern to get roosters homozygous for barring and you are set. (please show pictures when you are done!)

Barred leghorn over LB hens should work for starting another line but not really necessary, as you could just get unrelated pure LB phoneix for fresh blood. The latter would prevent any battling with removing undesired colors and genes introduced via the leghorn and are using hens already pure for everything you want.. Unless there's another reason such as increasing body size etc- I had considered adding modern game to increase the leg length in mine but never got around to that.

There is one problem though- leg color. Barring also has an effect on skin pigmentation. Barred Rocks are a good example- they normally would have black legs, except the barring removes pigmentation from the skin so their legs turn out yellow instead. Barring also has a dose effect, that is why homozygous barred roosters strongly tend to have clear yellow legs while barred hens tend to have spotty legs. That's a direct effect from barring. That's why the hens in that cross were 'dark legged' and the roosters with barring are 'light legged' it's the presence & absence of the barring. Barring prevented the pigmentation(which is blue shanks in your case) from showing up, leaving the white skin. This probably will be a permanent problem or a huge battle to develop barred birds that show color in the legs.. cuckoo silkie people have had this uphill battle for a while now, getting dark skin in cuckoos for this reason. I hear some people have managed to get some with decent skin color by now though.

Thanks for the info on Seramas, I will use that to add some information for the next reply..

 

[Kev]

Quote:
Ok here's a very simple answer. Get a good black breasted red rooster.. or a wheaten as flying monkey mentions wheaten may be the primary color base in this breed. Wheatens still will work although the hens will look very different from the usual crele hens. Wheaten hens with barring are very hard to detect, oftentimes the only trace is a really vague and washed out sparse barring on the hackles or the tail may look washed out compared to a normal wheaten tail. Wheaten roosters with barring still will look very Crele-ish. (technically the term Crele applies to a black breasted red with barring, although it is very commonly applied to any barred bird showing any other color than black)

So,

1) just get a black breasted red OR wheaten rooster.

2) Assume the babies out of cross to come out barred sons and black daughters. This is OK and to be expected. Keep the barred sons. (the daughters from this will be of "no use" for crele breeding)

3) Breed sons with black breasted red OR wheaten hens.

4) A few of the offspring will be Creles, in both sexes.. along with a wide range of colors and patterns- such as more barred, blacks, BBR or wheaten with no barring etc.

5) Keep the Creles! Either breed them together to get "pure" creles however you can breed them to any other wheaten or BBR and you will get more Creles.

6) To continue getting creles or barred birds, you MUST have at least one parent with visible barring for barred babies. Any babies with no barring out of any those matings will not have the gene at all. Don't assume "that black's daddy was barred so she has the gene in her".. she is black. period.


Addendum to 1): It is possible the hen is not pure for black. If that is the case, some "not black" offspring will show up. You may get very lucky and some of them may be Crele.. but it's also possible they may have silver so they will be a black and white version still. In any case, it is important you keep the sons and breed them in the same steps as above.

 

[Kev]

Quote:
Ah you got lucky. All you need to do are BBR or wheaten hens..

 

[priszilla]

I forget Dipsy if you are in Clovis or Aiken?I can't remember anything anymore - summer has been too long-LOL

 

[MysteryChicken]

Can this thread get a reboot? I have a Wheaton based crele to share. He's a real beauty. Just needs a few minor corrections is all. Would like your opinions?

The breed crosses I used to make this color pattern: Buff Orpington/Barred Rock X Buff Orpington/Australorp.

Here are his parents.