Crookneck, Marek's or Botulism -- please advise!

[katecox]

I have called our State Department of Agriculture and the Aviary Vetrinarian is away today but will be calling me tomorrow. I am hopeful that they will be able to give me some guidelines on how to go forward with my remaining flock as well as with Gertie. She is trying so hard to stand up -- it pains me to watch but I feel it is important to keep up treatment until the state Vet can assess the situation.

I will clean the coop out now and continue with her meds -- I left a little pile of food in front of her before I had to leave this morning and it was all gone when I returned.

Sigh.

 

[MotherJean]

I think you're very wise to get an expert opinion.

for you and hope you'll let us know what you find out.

 

[fl_deb]

i'm so sorry about your silkie.....she just looks so pretty....i hope tomorrow will bring happier thoughts!


Take care of you and yours;

Deb

 

[happyfeetfarm]

Sending you good vibes that all is well. We have dealt with M before and it was not pretty. We had two that recovered but lost about 11, it was a long process. We had them in a seperate chicken run and had not introduced any into our general flock thank goodness. It was pretty far away. After we felt we were safe we scraped the soil and dumped way on the other side and sprayed......to be honest I have torn the coop down and started elsewhere I was so heartbroken and angry.

Please let us know how it comes out.

I am glad that you live where someone can help diagnose. No one around here will do anything. You should have seen the look on my vets face when I needed help with a dairy goat.

 

[katecox]

I had a very good conversation this morning with the State Veterinarian. He confirmed the diagnosis of Marek's but also said that we of course can not by 100% certain until they are able to perform an autopsy on the body. A lot of what he talked to me about has already been discussed by all of you on this string. Because I free-range the flock it is almost impossible to get Marek's off our property. I forgot to ask how long the disease can live on the property after you are chicken-free. Does anyone know this? I also forgot to ask if there is any issues to eating eggs laid by chicken's that have Marek's disease. He agreed that with the time lapse since our first chicken died at 7 days (now assumed to have died of Marek's) that all our chickens are carriers of Marek's. He said that he would not vaccinate the remaining chicks.

Also, in regards to Gertie, he did confirm as one of you had said that she could come out of the paralysis. He said that as long as she is eating and drinking and if I have the desire, I could try to help her through. If she stops eating and drinking than I will want to re-assess. Her condition is somewhat the same as I described yesterday -- but the little girl seems to have so much vigor and hopefulness, I do to.

 

[THough1956]

It was me. I have had a few that have come back, but very few.

Why did he say not to vaccinate the rest. Everything I have read said it may be helpful. MAY.

Sorry. Good luck. And no, it does not pass thru to the eggs from what I understand. But I don't think the sick ones will lay anyway.

What area are you in?

 

[MotherJean]

I read that the virus can remain in the environment for as long as 65 weeks after the removal of all infected chickens. Dr. Brown at First State Veterinary Supply suggests using Oxine as a general disinfectant (far better than chlorine bleach and water) and also suggests cleaning up any lose feathers lying around since they can harbor the shed virus. The idea that vaccinating infected birds may be worthwhile is a theory of ongoing research on Mareks. It's experimental at this stage, so I think it's likely that the State Vet wouldn't recommend it for that reason. If you decide to add birds to your flock you will have to be sure to vaccinate them for Mareks and isolate them from the other birds for at least two weeks. The PoultryOne website says:

"Mareks is extremely contagious but does not spread vertically (to the egg). Youngsters should develop a natural immunity (called 'age resistance'), by the time they're five months old. This is one of the reasons it is important to raise your youngsters separately from your oldsters. The older birds that have encountered Mareks and have managed to survive are carriers. New birds coming in from other flocks are always potential carriers."

That leads me to think that adding older birds to your flock might be the way to go in future. If they have also been vaccinated, all the better.

 

[katecox]

Quote:
A few questions in regards to this post THough 1956 -- first, the few that did come back from paralysis -- how long did it take? We are moving into Day 4 and she is still eating and drinking on her own and doesn't seem to be declining anymore, she will windmill her legs when I am holding her but she can't support her body at all and her legs immediately drop when I try to stand her up a bit.

So from what I am reading, I should assume that 100% of my remaining 8 birds has Marek's. If that is the case and they are all infected then none of them will ever lay any eggs? The reality of the situation is crashing in -- if I do nothing at this point then our future is the potential deaths of the remaining flock and in the meantime girls that never produce eggs.

As I go forward, I will never purchase chickens that have not been vaccinated, unfortunately no one in our area (South Sound Western Washington) sold vaccinated chicks (but I also didn't know what Marek's was at the time I bought them).

If in my research (and if you have more advice out there please send it my way!) I find that they can produce eggs and I just have to watch for Marek's signs as I go on then that might be an outlook I can handle. I would only add in vaccinated chicks. BTW, where can I find Oxine -- at our local feed store?

 

[MotherJean]

In all my reading, I've never come across anything to suggest that hens infected with Mareks will not lay. To the contrary, at least one source says that if a chicken makes it to about 5 months of age (point of lay) without showing symptoms of Mareks, it likely has a natural immunity. What I have read is that you have to assume that 100% of your birds have been infected, but that doesn't mean that all of them will show symptoms or die from the disease. The neurological Mareks causes lesions (little cancers) on the brain with common symptoms of uncoordination, paralysis, seizures, and death. The visceral Mareks causes tumors that effect organ function with common symptoms being lethargy, weight loss, refusing food and water. It can also effect the lungs causing respiratory distress. Depending on how badly the organ(s) are effected, the bird may die or may simply be one of those skinny, non-laying, unthrifty birds. The ocular Mareks effects the eyes, generally causing blindness in one or both. Symptoms include large, irregularly shaped pupil and/or a gray iris. And, like I said, some birds never do show symptoms of the disease, but should be considered carriers. You should not sell or give any of your birds away without advising the new owner that you have suspected Mareks in your flock.

How old are your birds, BTW? If they are close to or exceeding 5 months old, you may have some cause for hope.

 

[katecox]

Quote:
Thanks so much Mother Jean, I now have hope! My birds are 12 weeks old tomorrow. So I have 2 more months to go...I am anxious to hear how quickly paralysis left THrough 1956 chicks. Although having a necropsy done on Gertie would be insightful -- or could I exhume my other 2 birds (11/ 7 weeks weeks buried) and see if they too died from Marek's?