Crossbreeding dual purpose breeds for sustainable flock

[HomesteadNowhere]

From memory I would rate this hatch as being overall better than the hatchery mix I got last year.
...then I read back the weight posts! Quoted below so you don't have to hunt them down..

Got refunded for the chicks that died. I'm down to 34 of the 53 shipped. I was in town and picked up 15 brahma pullets as replacements. All 26 FR doing good.

Of the mixed survivors there is:
3 dark Cornish- 31 to 39g
5 Sussex- 36 to 48g
2 Columbian Wyandotte?- 30 and 39g
6 black star or barred rock?- 41 to 52g
6 Delaware- 35 to 45g
6 buff orp or buff rock?- 35 to 44g
6 new hamp or red star?- 60 to 75g

Freedom ranger hatchery will have New Hampshires available in July. Considering ordering some. Straight run only. Depends on how these chicks look. And if I end up with mostly cockerals or mostly pullets.

FR hit right even. 13 with tail feathers, 13 without or just barely starting tail feathers. So guessing that means should be even M/F.
Average weight 134g. Lowest 94g. Highest 168g.

There's definitely a range of size and weight in the mixed chicks. I'm just going to wait until later when their growth isn't so fast to mark the heaviest ones. I'm going to make a premier1 order and going to order some adult chicken bands.

I'm still not sure what breeds they are so I'm still writing my notes based on what they look like. My breed guess after list. Weights in grams, taken 4/14.

Red/buff? (some red/buff wings, some darker pattern wings)- 158, 172, 172, 222, 227

Black, white spot on head- 66, 84, 96, 100 (barred rock)

Buff?- 67, 68, 71, 80, 87, 89 (buff orp, buff rock, red star)

Chipmunk, white belly- 64, 70, 75, 82, 94 (sussex)

Chipmunk, tan belly- 62 (dk cornish)

Black (differing coloring and wing colors)- 51, 56, 69, 75 (columbian wyandotte, blk star, blk giant)

White- 49, 62, 64, 70, 82, 88 (delaware)

Brahma (fuzzy legs)- 39, 45, 46, 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 55, 58, 58, 58

I was going to weigh the FR today as well but didn't happen. Hope to do them tomorrow.

It's brooder madness here. The weather decides to be summer, then we get a day of winter, and back to early spring for a week. The meat birds have no heat on them, they are doing fine at room temperature. The mixed birds are feathering well and I have the light way up for them. I'll be turning the light off and checking to see if the smaller ones are becoming cold or not. They seem good though.

FR weights today. Low- 13.1oz. High 1# 2.5oz. Average 15.4oz. They are doing good with the restricted feeding. I'm looking forward to getting them the heck outside and being less restrictive in the feeding. All 26 still here.

Mixed birds, weighed yesterday. Total 45.
White (delaware)- 4.2 to 6.8oz (six birds)
Barred rock- 4.3 to 6.8oz (six birds)
Brahmas- 3.5 to 5.3oz (thirteen birds)
Sussex (and maybe a dark cornish)- 5 to 6.7oz (six birds)
Buff- 5.1 to 6.8oz (five birds)
Black (?)- 4.7oz (one bird)
Blk/white (?)- 3.6 and 6.4oz (two birds)
"big reds" (?)- 13oz to 1#3oz (six birds)

The brahmas were pullets from TSC so those should all be hens. The rest I have no idea if I've ended up with mostly hens or mostly roos with the whole fiasco the weekend they arrived. We shall see.

TSC has chicks 50cents each and RK had a huge order just in so the previous chicks went to dollar sale. I'm dying to get these birds outside. If the darn weather would make up it's mind! I'm going to build a brooder to go on the porch. This inside brooding is a mess.

I managed to catch some and get weights. I had to use a snap on lid for the bucket because they'd jump out.

FR, m- 4.74, 4.84
FR, f- 3.84, 4.14, 3.96
Big reds- 4.54, 4.9, 3.74(f?), 4.74(pretty one)
Sussex- 1.64, 1.6, 1.5
Buff- 1.76, 2, 1.85
Delaware- 2
Brahma- 1.17, 1
Barred rock- 2.12, 1.66

Current flock:
Sussex 4
Wh 1 (giant, orp, Wyandotte?)
Blk/wh 3 (Delaware/col Wyandotte?)
Buff 6 (pale legs, orpington?)
Bar rock 4
Partridge rock 1
Big red 1
Brahma 8
FR 10
-38 pullets
Pretty boy (possibly an oops beilefelder?)
Big red
-2 cockerels

Butcher-
Bar rock 1
Big red 3
FR 13
Total 17

Weights for dead is no head and bled out. Clean weights is with neck, no organs. I didn't get all the FR dead weight because I was getting the hang of dipping and plucking, but all clean weights there. We ran out of time so I have 5 FR to do alone.
Bar rock- dead 2.48/ clean 1#13oz
Big reds- dead 5.27, 5.62, 5.5/ clean 4#3oz, 4#5oz, 4#4oz
FR- dead 5.5, 5.87, 5.35, 5.14, 5.8/ clean 4#5, 4#7, 4#7, 4#2, 4#1, 4#8, 3#15.5, 4#9

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

Last year I got chicks on 4/1 and 4/2, Thursday and Friday. Assuming chicks hatched mon/tues.. 3/29-30. So the weight post from 4/14 puts them just over 2wks old. So comparing 2wk weights...

Brahma last year 39-58g.
Current feather leg crosses 108-152g.

NH last year 158-227g.
Rest of the mix last year 49-100g.

Current hatch low 108g. High 225g. Avg 172g.

 

[NatJ]

Last year I got chicks on 4/1 and 4/2, Thursday and Friday. Assuming chicks hatched mon/tues.. 3/29-30. So the weight post from 4/14 puts them just over 2wks old. So comparing 2wk weights...

Brahma last year 39-58g.
Current feather leg crosses 108-152g.

NH last year 158-227g.
Rest of the mix last year 49-100g.

Current hatch low 108g. High 225g. Avg 172g.

I notice the NH last year were as good as what you have this year, but the rest from last year were much worse than this year.

I wonder if you're seeing hybrid vigor, or selection for the better genetics, or if shipping sets them back somehow But if shipping was a problem, it should have affected last year's New Hampshires as well, so that is probably not it.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

I notice the NH last year were as good as what you have this year, but the rest from last year were much worse. than this year.

I wonder if you're seeing hybrid vigor, or selection for the better genetics, or if shipping sets them back somehow But if shipping was a problem, it should have affected last year's New Hampshires as well, so that is probably not it.

It definitely wouldn't pass a scientific study I suspect all three play into it...
I think the NH from mcmurray would be better to order than anything else I got from them. They did that good under the same conditions as the rest of the bunch.
I had alot of losses the first two days which I now think was a combination of shipping stress and I think chicks need the lamp the first week before going to the heat plate.

This hatch is first generation of crossing. I'm sure hybrid vigor is playing a part. I've recombined the genes from the NH roo and whichever hen the egg came from.
For the FR which are already hybrid of grandparent lines and parent lines, I think having the one NH roo sire is going to act as the known factor.
For eggs from the rest of the hens there is definite breed to breed hybrid vigor going on. One of the things I've learned this past year is that if you have two lines that are really breeding true and the more the genetics have been refined to have a pure family.. That line if cross bred to something else will have amazing hybrid vigor. The more true and refined the lines that are crossed then the better hybrid vigor in the cross offspring will be.
For example if you take your spiral breeding families.. red blue green.. Now each one is a line and inside red I have spiral breeding 1, 2, 3. And for blue and green. Continue to refine the color lines for lets say five years.
Now the sixth year you have made some progress on each color line. If you cross red x blue.. the offspring are going to have so much more hybrid vigor.
This is the idea that makes the Cx work its just got a ton of micro management and tons of funding and research into every tiny aspect of it. But the same principles can be used on our scale.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

The 4/26 (4wk) weight was in lb/oz so here it is in grams. I'm probably going to continue with g/kg to make it easier.

FR low 371g, high 524g, avg 425g.
Red (NH) 368-539
Buff 145-193
BR 122-193
Del 122-193
Sussex 142-190

6/13 last year random weights. 11wks.
FR 1724-2132
NH 1678-2223
Buff 771-907
BR 726-907
Del 907
Sussex 680

Of all the mix birds only the NH had any real amount of meat to them. The rest were like puppets, just structure to hold feathers on. My current hatch even the span of weights I feel like there is more meat on them then the rest of the mix last year. They feel dense. Last year's chicks were like feathered ping pong balls.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

Chicks survived the first night outside! I went out at about 11:30 and put them all into the tote. Had to hold my hand over the door a minute for them to calm down.. "oh this is cozy"... Dummies that's why it's in there. I waited several minutes and they stayed in there. I put my hand in and you could tell the body heat was warming the inside of the tote.

I couldn't help it and candled the eggs. Pulled 10 of the extra eggs that were obvious clears, lit up like a lamp when candled. There is several questionable ones marked. I won't pull anything else til probably Sunday to make sure duds are definitely duds.

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

NH roo over freedom ranger hens... 34 from 44 set.
Bielefelder roo over freedom ranger hens... 6 from 12 set.
NH roo over brahma and a Wyandotte... 2 from 18 set.

Current batch total is now 42.

Really glad I set so many. I'm wondering if I should be worried about the fertility. They are broilers so I don't think I should expect a great rate. Like how dark Cornish are known to have lower fertility. I think it's also to do with the three nearly bare backed hens... I don't think the roo is breeding them evenly at all.
Later on I may hatch some from the brahmas just to see. With 8 hens to 1 roo. The way I've had them isn't ideal.
Something to think on.

 

[CNJ]

What are you going to do with all those chickens?

 

[Molpet]

What are you going to do with all those chickens?

Keep the best and eat the rest, I imagine

 

[HomesteadNowhere]

Yep. I'll pick the best ones for breeding. The rest will be eaten or sold.