Crosses

MyBabiesTheChickens

In the Brooder
Jan 2, 2020
18
2
14
Our Bielefelder roo was a little lonely, so we put a Red Cochin hen and a White Leghorn hen with him. What are the color and pattern possibilities if the fertilized eggs hatch?
 

Lady of McCamley

Crowing
8 Years
Mar 19, 2011
7,060
4,754
462
NW Oregon
I don't know the exact genetics of a Bielefelder, but they are autosexing barred, so I can assume the males are double barred while the females (who show a barring pattern) are single barred like my auto-sexing Cream Legbar.

So you have a double (2 gene) barred rooster, which means 100% of the chicks, both genders will be barred.

Now you have a White Leghorn which usually is dominant white. Her progeny will white out the barring or at best ghost the barring, both genders. Chicks will often be yellow down with a black head spot. Dominant white is really, really hard to get rid of, so that whole line will be affected for generations.

ETA: That hybrid---Leghorn to Bielfelder will be laying machines. You will improve the body size, generally keep the laying capacity, and generally tone down the flightiness of the Leghorn...if you don't mind the "white out" you get color wise.

The red of your Cochin acts as a lovely base to manipulate barring and lacing, depending on the parent side, but you've got a barred male coloring that dominates. Usually you'll then get black and white barred with red leakage both genders and possibly some more red based with black barring as the bielfelder already has red undertones. My hybrid Barnvelder-Cream Legbar males come out very pretty black-white barred with barred red saddles.

You will know your Cochin's progeny as all of it will have foot feathering, nearly 100% first generation in my experience. Cochins are so heavily foot feathered that I have always had hybrid offspring with at least half a boot (outside foot feathering) first gen. Second generation you begin to see the foot feathering drop off, but it will throw back periodically.

The big floppy soft Cochin feathering however seems to drop off with first generation. I have not had soft feathering in any of my Cochin hybrids. Body type also more resembles the layer but is 3/4 size if bred to a Bantam Cochin, which also means 3/4 size eggs. Do you have a standard Cochin? Then body type will likely be heavier than the layer which improves the Bielfelder if you were to go for meat (but I can make assumption that you are more interested in pet/eggs?)

Egg laying tends to be an average of the 2 sides. Bielfelder lays better than the Cochin, so those hybrids will be less than the Bielfelder but a bit better than the Cochin. Standard Cochin adds size and weight for table.

My guesses.
LofMc

ETA: Save the best rooster from the red-barred cross, and you'll only have a 1 gene barred rooster. Line breed back to your Red Cochin hen, and you can 2nd gen get non-barred 50% both genders, barred 50% both genders. You can then work with the barring side to get back to autosexing 2 barred gene roosters and 1 barred gene females....but only if you are happy with the size and egg capacity of the Cochin line.
 
Last edited:

MyBabiesTheChickens

In the Brooder
Jan 2, 2020
18
2
14
I don't know the exact genetics of a Bielefelder, but they are autosexing barred, so I can assume the males are double barred while the females (who show a barring pattern) are single barred like my auto-sexing Cream Legbar.

So you have a double (2 gene) barred rooster, which means 100% of the chicks, both genders will be barred.

Now you have a White Leghorn which usually is dominant white. Her progeny will white out the barring or at best ghost the barring, both genders. Chicks will often be yellow down with a black head spot. Dominant white is really, really hard to get rid of, so that whole line will be affected for generations.

ETA: That hybrid---Leghorn to Bielfelder will be laying machines. You will improve the body size, generally keep the laying capacity, and generally tone down the flightiness of the Leghorn...if you don't mind the "white out" you get color wise.

The red of your Cochin acts as a lovely base to manipulate barring and lacing, depending on the parent side, but you've got a barred male coloring that dominates. Usually you'll then get black and white barred with red leakage both genders and possibly some more red based with black barring as the bielfelder already has red undertones. My hybrid Barnvelder-Cream Legbar males come out very pretty black-white barred with barred red saddles.

You will know your Cochin's progeny as all of it will have foot feathering, nearly 100% first generation in my experience. Cochins are so heavily foot feathered that I have always had hybrid offspring with at least half a boot (outside foot feathering) first gen. Second generation you begin to see the foot feathering drop off, but it will throw back periodically.

The big floppy soft Cochin feathering however seems to drop off with first generation. I have not had soft feathering in any of my Cochin hybrids. Body type also more resembles the layer but is 3/4 size if bred to a Bantam Cochin, which also means 3/4 size eggs. Do you have a standard Cochin? Then body type will likely be heavier than the layer which improves the Bielfelder if you were to go for meat (but I can make assumption that you are more interested in pet/eggs?)

Egg laying tends to be an average of the 2 sides. Bielfelder lays better than the Cochin, so those hybrids will be less than the Bielfelder but a bit better than the Cochin. Standard Cochin adds size and weight for table.

My guesses.
LofMc

ETA: Save the best rooster from the red-barred cross, and you'll only have a 1 gene barred rooster. Line breed back to your Red Cochin hen, and you can 2nd gen get non-barred 50% both genders, barred 50% both genders. You can then work with the barring side to get back to autosexing 2 barred gene roosters and 1 barred gene females....but only if you are happy with the size and egg capacity of the Cochin line.
Wow! This was a lot of interesting information. Thank you! But I'm hoping things go well since this is our Bielefelder's first time breeding..........and he already, by some odd and bad chance, tore part of the Leghorn hen's face. 😭 Poor baby.
 

Lady of McCamley

Crowing
8 Years
Mar 19, 2011
7,060
4,754
462
NW Oregon
I would definitely observe them to see what is happening. Mating only takes seconds and shouldn't damage the hen. She may have tore it on a fence or something, but tearing her wattles is not normal mating or interaction. If you have a young roo, he may be over aggressive with mating. A good roo is gentle on the hens though he may grab the back of her neck briefly to stabilize the act.
 

Lady of McCamley

Crowing
8 Years
Mar 19, 2011
7,060
4,754
462
NW Oregon
Also it is good to note that a hen stays fertile for about 14 days after mating. She actually has a pouch in her oviduct that will hold sperm to fertilize each daily egg. It takes about 24 hours for the first egg to be fertile, then she should be good for about 2 weeks. So the roo doesn't need to be with the girls all the time. I also recommend getting another couple of hens with a young roo to try to avoid over mating.
 

MyBabiesTheChickens

In the Brooder
Jan 2, 2020
18
2
14
I would definitely observe them to see what is happening. Mating only takes seconds and shouldn't damage the hen. She may have tore it on a fence or something, but tearing her wattles is not normal mating or interaction. If you have a young roo, he may be over aggressive with mating. A good roo is gentle on the hens though he may grab the back of her neck briefly to stabilize the act.
He is a very gentle roo, but we believe his size compared to the Leghorn is just too much and makes him clumsier to cause such a mishap. :( We are actually thinking of giving him away so we don't hurt any other hens if it is the roo thats doing that. Didn't see any blood on the wires since we have all sharp edges tucked away.

Also have another question about cross breeding, assuming the breeding incident with the Leghorn was due to size + inexperience. What are the pattern or color possibilities for a Bielefelder Roo over Buff Brahma hen, knowing the barred gene from the Roo is dominant? Will the markings on the neck of a standard buff Brahma hen do anything? Or would the hen be treated as a solid buff color?
 
Last edited:

Lady of McCamley

Crowing
8 Years
Mar 19, 2011
7,060
4,754
462
NW Oregon
The hen would be Buff Columbian (columbian is the black neck markings).

I ran the chicken calculator to check, as sometimes buff can do odd things, but that offspring will still be black patterned (barred) with possible red markings or leakage at the neck due to the columbian pattern.

I highly recommend playing with this genetic calculator for chickens.

Young roos can unintentionally harm the female as they figure things out. Definitely keep an eye on it. I have had to limit some of my roos to the small bantams. Some have been gentle while others not so much.

Good luck with your flock.
LofMc
 

RoostersAreAwesome

Free Ranging
May 21, 2017
5,244
15,374
742
White leghorn x bielefelder would produce white offspring with red barred leakage. Dominant white erases pretty much all black from a chicken, and I believe it gradually dilutes red too after a few generations.
 

MyBabiesTheChickens

In the Brooder
Jan 2, 2020
18
2
14
So, we are still in hatching process and choosing a mixed breed egg by random. We have a White Cochin rooster and Bantam Black Cochin rooster in our main run with all the hens because the don't get along with certain roos(which we are trying to get rid of) and we are wondering what we would get out of these crosses since I watched the Silver Lace lay her egg and we know there can only be two options for fathers.

~White Cochin Roo over Silver Laced Wyandotte Hen
~Bantam Black Cochin over Silver Laced Wyandotte Hen(if this roo managed to get on her)
 

Lady of McCamley

Crowing
8 Years
Mar 19, 2011
7,060
4,754
462
NW Oregon
My experience will be that the black roo will produce black chicks, both genders, as black tends to be dominant. (Chicken calculator confirmed that as well).

The white roo will depend if he is white dominant or white recessive.

If white dominant, all chicks, both genders will be white with some possible bleed through of the base color of the Wyandotte. The lacing will disappear as it is silver on black...silver on white will be not perceived.

If recessive white, the roo will pass only one recessive white gene along. You will get a black base from the Wyandotte with possibly some incomplete lacing first gen but most likely solid black as well. (Chicken calculator confirmed my suspicion as well).

That won't help you much will it....you will end up with black chicks if the roo is white recessive or if the black roo is the father.

You will end up with yellow down chicks (to turn in white adults) if the roo is white dominant. So your choices will literally be black or white in those circumstances to tell you which is the father.

All chicks will have rose combs as rose comb is dominant over the Cochin single.

If true Cochin fathers, all chicks will be foot feathered.

I personally find the soft Cochin feathering falls off the first generation with mixes to layer types and the body type resembles the layer as well.

Happy hatching :D
LofMc
 
Top Bottom