Current Internet Theory

[BlindLemonChicken]

Follow up question: would those changes be enough to cause a significant drop in egg laying? 0.05% doesn't seem drastic

 

[Kiki]

Scratch and Peck's "Naturally Free" Organic Layer.

View attachment 3389292

Lys 0.7, Met 0.3, Phos 0.5 (those are already pretty minimal)

View attachment 3389295

NO CHANGE(except Price)

 

[Kiki]

Here's Dumor Brand's Layer feed. Here's a BYC post from 2017 with its label breakdown.

Crude Protein (min.) 16.00%, Lysine (min.) .70%, Methionine (min.) .35%, Crude Fat (min.) 2.50%, Crude Fiber (max.) 7.00%, Calcium (Ca) (min.) 3.80%, Calcium (Ca) (max.) 4.80%, Phosphorus (P) (min.) .50%, Salt (NaCl) (min.) .25%, Salt (NaCl) (max.) .75%, Ruminant meat and bone meal free.

Here it is on TSC today.

Methionine

0.30% min

Lysine

0.70% min

Phosphorus

0.45% min

Yup, they told us. Met and Phos have both dropped.

and if you look on Kiki's spreadsheet, you will see the old numbers - 0.35% Met, 0.5% Phos

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Follow up question: would those changes be enough to cause a significant drop in egg laying? 0.05% doesn't seem drastic

As it turns out, the 0.3% the feed is down to is the level at which many feeds already were.

So while I consider a change from 0.35 to 0.3 to be pretty drastic (the new level is only 85% of the former), NO, IT WILL NOT CAUSE BIRDS TO STOP LAYING. (emphasis for those in the back)

Methionine needs for an adult laying production hen first year are generally given as 0.3% (old studies), up to 0.4% (new studies). Met is MUCH more important to hatchlings - its used for connective tissue development - skin, intenstinal tract, tendons - you know, unimportant stuff. Reduced Met levels in young chicks result in greater vulnerability to disease, slower growth, lowered feed efficiency through adulthood, among other concerns.

Once they are done growing, its used for maintenance - primarily the synthesis of other proteins.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

As it turns out, the 0.3% the feed is down to is the level at which many feeds already were.

So while I consider a change from 0.35 to 0.3 to be pretty drastic (the new level is only 85% of the former), NO, IT WILL NOT CAUSE BIRDS TO STOP LAYING. (emphasis for those in the back)

Methionine needs for an adult laying production hen first year are generally given as 0.3% (old studies), up to 0.4% (new studies). Met is MUCH more important to hatchlings - its used for connective tissue development - skin, intenstinal tract, tendons - you know, unimportant stuff. Reduced Met levels in young chicks result in greater vulnerability to disease, slower growth, lowered feed efficiency through adulthood, among other concerns.

Once they are done growing, its used for maintenance - primarily the synthesis of other proteins.

and the reduction in Phos? Pat of the Ca : P balance equation - Affects bone growth, Ca ion regulation (used to control muscles like the heart), helps buffer the effects of excess Calcium, but at too high a level, starts to block Ca absorption and mess up the Ca ion channels.

Its basically not used in egg production, that's why "Layer" formulations generally have as much P as other mixes. Anything between 0.4 and 0.6 is considered acceptable. I look for 0.5 to 0.6 for my own birds.

 

[3KillerBs]

How interesting.

Personally, I haven't had any laying issues -- having culled the 2yo's out of my flock this fall and never dropping below 4-5 eggs per day with the new pullets coming into lay and the 1yo's molting and I'm back up to 10-12 per day already from my roughly 20 laying-age females.

I don't have any tags to contribute because Southern States has changed their feed completely from what I used last year.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

How interesting.

I don't have any tags to contribute because Southern States has changed their feed completely from what I used last year.

^^^ Great way to avoid leaving footprints of a formulation change.

I wonder if the new "High Protein" layer feed Purina just dumped onto the market isn't intended to compete with Nutrena's "Feather Fixer".

Here's the High Protein Layer:

Here's Purina's Standard Nutrena line Layer crumbles

and here is their Layena Layer +Omega3:

This was the only one I saw in Kiki's spreadsheet. Looks unchanged (and nutritionally identical to the NEW Dumor 16% layer, except that the Dumor averages 0.5% higher calcium...)

 

[HorseGirlAbby]

Hmm. My feed, Payback All-Purpose, hasn't changed at all since 2018, from what I can see.

 

[EmmaRainboe]

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thus far, I'm not seeing much evidence for widespread feed formulation changes - but "Layer" formulations are (or were) designed to be minimally nutritious in order to maximize economy - there just isn't much you can take out of one and not have health issues.

Possibly we'll see greater changes in a different market segment?

If nothing else, we've F'd around and found out...