Current Internet Theory

[U_Stormcrow]

Personally, I wish Mike had tested for other common toxicities that accidently end up in food, like rat poison/Warfarin. A few pellets of rat poison or even a poisoned rat may have gotten ground up in the process of making a large batch of feed and would be a perfectly good explanation for an egg reduction issue - Warfarin (used in some rat poisons) is known to cause just that.

My neighbor had issues with a brand new bag of Producer's Pride. However, he did not experience reduced egg laying, his chickens simply wouldn't eat it. I smelled the feed myself and couldn't detect anything off, I also raked my fingers through the bag looking for clumps and/or mold and found nothing. After which, I gave him a bucket of my feed and his chickens immediately went to town on it. At that time I didn't know anyone was having issues with TSC feed, I just figured my neighbor got a bad bag. It happens sometimes - even with human food.

Warfarin is a Vitamin K blocker, K used to create clotting factor. My family has reason to know.

I'd be more inclined to look that way if a lot of birds were bleedng to death internally, since a large number of the anecdotes came from people who claimed to use both a "value" brand layer feed and also scratch - which tends to be high fat, low protein, and one of the more common avenues for fatty liver hemmhoragic (which I just miss spelled, and simply don't care). Many of whom allegedly responded to the reduced rate of lay with more corn and/or scratch. Corn is high fat, low protein, low methionine (connective tissues) but its also low Threonine (something I don't mention often). Why does threonine matter? Threonine is used in making membranes, such as cell membranes. If your freshly laid eggs have weak, watery whites and yolks that don't "stand tall" (or worse, break very easily), look at increasing your threonine levels (not on the label, sorry - this one requires observation!)

 

[Sally PB]

Thank you, @U_Stormcrow.

Now, we can consign "that guy" to internet oblivion, I hope!

 

[Geena]

leading me to suspect it was likely yeast of some sort

I've seen that many chicken feeds contain "fermentation product". Is it possible that's what caused the TAC to be high? Or that it could possibly have been some sort of beneficial bacteria or probiotics?



*Disclaimer - Just curious, I'm thoroughly convinced the feed is/was not contaminated in any way. Actually I was kinda impressed that all the tests turned out as good as they did.

 

[HollowOfWisps]

Personally, I wish Mike had tested for other common toxicities that accidently end up in food, like rat poison/Warfarin. A few pellets of rat poison or even a poisoned rat may have gotten ground up in the process of making a large batch of feed and would be a perfectly good explanation for an egg reduction issue - Warfarin (used in some rat poisons) is known to cause just that.

My neighbor had issues with a brand new bag of Producer's Pride. However, he did not experience reduced egg laying, his chickens simply wouldn't eat it. I smelled the feed myself and couldn't detect anything off, I also raked my fingers through the bag looking for clumps and/or mold and found nothing. After which, I gave him a bucket of my feed and his chickens immediately went to town on it. At that time I didn't know anyone was having issues with TSC feed, I just figured my neighbor got a bad bag. It happens sometimes - even with human food.

Agreed. If anything was actually wrong I could potentially see and believe it was just a bad batch. Animals know heck even my kids do. My kids were visiting my parents and refused to eat their spaghetti there. My parents called me up complaining that my kids refused to eat their spaghetti. I told them that my kids love spaghetti so if they weren’t eating it something was wrong. Later that night everyone who ate the spaghetti was sick with food poisoning, but when I went to pick up my kids they were laughing chasing each other playing tag both perfectly fine.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I've seen that many chicken feeds contain "fermentation product". Is it possible that's what caused the TAC to be high? Or that it could possibly have been some sort of beneficial bacteria or probiotics?



*Disclaimer - Just curious, I'm thoroughly convinced the feed is/was not contaminated in any way. Actually I was kinda impressed that all the tests turned out as good as they did.

So, feed ingredients are always in flux, but this is what I fould online for the Purina product:

Grain Products, Processed Grain By-Products, Plant Protein Products, Calcium Carbonate, Molasses Products, Salt, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Marigold Extract, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Vitamin E Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K), Manganous Oxide, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Folic Acid, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate

So, good guess, but not this time. Also, the test "that guy" used *should* have differentiated between actual bacteria and products of fermentation or bacterial manufacture. I have a hard time believing his equipment and methods wouldn't. Will lean in his favor on this one particular question. The differing results between products suggest there weren't widescale contamination or poor lab practices also, though one should run multiple samples as best process.

 

[Geena]

So, feed ingredients are always in flux, but this is what I fould online for the Purina product:

Grain Products, Processed Grain By-Products, Plant Protein Products, Calcium Carbonate, Molasses Products, Salt, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Marigold Extract, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Vitamin E Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K), Manganous Oxide, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Folic Acid, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate

So, good guess, but not this time. Also, the test "that guy" used *should* have differentiated between actual bacteria and products of fermentation or bacterial manufacture. I have a hard time believing his equipment and methods wouldn't. Will lean in his favor on this one particular question. The differing results between products suggest there weren't widescale contamination or poor lab practices also, though one should run multiple samples as best process.

Thanks for the explanation. I guess I should have checked the Purina ingredients before asking. The feeds I've been using have a lot of added microorganisms.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Those fermentation products are mostly enzymes to make other components in the feed more bioavailable. But which enzymes and what ingredients/vitamins/minerals are made more bioavailable is an open question I can't answer.