Danish Vs Light Brown Leghorn?

[RiverOtter]

This is drifting a bit, but - the lavender gene that most folks are working with comes from Orpingtons, right?

Has anyone tried bringing the gene into their lines from self-blue Games?

 

[Jfitz]

I looked up their FB page since @MIAMI LEGHORN was just asking about red mottled leghorns. (Those look great!) Unfortunately, there IS evidence of fray in their lavender birds. It's suppressed probably because they've been backcrossing to lots of undiluted birds to get these varieties going, but as soon as you stop breeding out to browns it'll come raging back.

I'm not aware of any line in the US that has successfully broken the linkage to the point that birds don't show fray or diminished feather quality after multiple generations of lavender only birds. Every time someone shows me nice feather quality in a lavender large fowl bird—of ANY breed—in the US I have found out that there's a black or brown crossed in in the recent history.

How would one eventually breed out the 'fray' issue? They way I understand, after a few generations the straw and lavender will become so washed out that it would need to be crossed back to brown to bring the color back in. So one would be fighting against maintaining color to rid the fray?

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

This is drifting a bit, but - the lavender gene that most folks are working with comes from Orpingtons, right?

Has anyone tried bringing the gene into their lines from self-blue Games?

I tried to find some LF self blue games to see if they suffered from the issue as well. Couldn't find any. Do you have a line on some? Games would be much more compatible with Leghorns than Orps, type-wise!

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

How would one eventually breed out the 'fray' issue? They way I understand, after a few generations the straw and lavender will become so washed out that it would need to be crossed back to brown to bring the color back in. So one would be fighting against maintaining color to rid the fray?

Basically you have hatch and grow out hundreds on birds to find males that were free of it, then test breed to females and tag and grow out their offspring to see if the female was a carrier. (Wing patch is carried by females, but doesn't express. Fray is less visible in females.)

You just breed back to brown to maintain some semblance of feather quality, it does nothing for color. In fact, it's probably detrimental to color because you can't really focus on improving the lavender tones without the distraction of breeding for splits every few generations.

Breeding back to browns is a bandaid fix.

 

[RiverOtter]

I have seen LF self-blue games, but couldn't afford them at the time. I do know that there's more than one game breeder that has them, at least as of 3 years ago. I also know that when talking to a LF Game breeder, always call them self-blue and never lavender.

And I did see eggs on ebay last year, but again, couldn't afford (not that they were hideously expensive for LF Game eggs, just well over my meager budget) So they are out there, just hard to find.

I've been tempted to just try a banty roo, since those are easier to find and a slightly over-sized banty game roo WILL breed a leghorn size chicken (and will desperately try with big, fluffy Wyandotte girls, who were nowhere near as amused as I was) and it sure seems a lot easier to breed up to Leghorn size than down to it. But sadly, a fisher got my brown leghorn girls last year before I could try

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

I have seen LF self-blue games, but couldn't afford them at the time. I do know that there's more than one game breeder that has them, at least as of 3 years ago. I also know that when talking to a LF Game breeder, always call them self-blue and never lavender.

And I did see eggs on ebay last year, but again, couldn't afford (not that they were hideously expensive for LF Game eggs, just well over my meager budget) So they are out there, just hard to find.

I've been tempted to just try a banty roo, since those are easier to find and a slightly over-sized banty game roo WILL breed a leghorn size chicken (and will desperately try with big, fluffy Wyandotte girls, who were nowhere near as amused as I was) and it sure seems a lot easier to breed up to Leghorn size than down to it. But sadly, a fisher got my brown leghorn girls last year before I could try

I was just reading over the history of the lavender Ameraucana on the Am. forum and found out that John Blehm used his bantam lav Ameraucana, which he created using lavender D'Anvers, to make LF Ameraucana. So, apparently, the fray gene is alive and well in D'Anvers since it's VERY apparent in LF Ameraucana, and I've for SURE seen it in bantam OEGB and Porcelain D'Uccles, but there does seem to be some lines of bantams that have broken the link and bred it out. Particularly OEGB, I've seen some very good feather quality in those. I imagine it is much more affordable to hatch and grow out the numbers needed to find the 1/100 fray-free cockerel when you're dealing with such tiny birds.

If I could find a good self blue Dutch bantam, I'd jump on that in a hot minute, too, but I'm not sure we have lavender Dutch bantams on this side of the pond? But really, I'm very seriously considering taking my Isabella leghorn love to the bantam side if I could get my hands on a pair of fray-free lavender bantams... of any breed.

I've been trying to find a bantam passion project and dabbling in bantam Rocks, but maybe this is the ticket.

 

[RiverOtter]

@HaikuHeritageFarm , you could try asking here; https://sites.google.com/view/oegca/home?authuser=0

 

[Jfitz]

Basically you have hatch and grow out hundreds on birds to find males that were free of it, then test breed to females and tag and grow out their offspring to see if the female was a carrier. (Wing patch is carried by females, but doesn't express. Fray is less visible in females.)

You just breed back to brown to maintain some semblance of feather quality, it does nothing for color. In fact, it's probably detrimental to color because you can't really focus on improving the lavender tones without the distraction of breeding for splits every few generations.

Breeding back to browns is a bandaid fix.

Wow, sounds like quite a task! I can see why its such a prevalent issue that's hard to break. It would require a LOT of meticulous record keeping not to mention the hassle of single breeding and rotating the One good male, IF he were to hatch.

By breeding back to brown it just masks the fray. So in the F2, having brown split parents, how would you select for F3 without fray if they were just bred from brown splits?