d'anver lovers,discuss the breed and post some pics!

[nicalandia]

now how do we go from Self Buff to Self Red?


well your first cross roosters will likely look like below rooster(here next to his mother)

since he is a F1 of a Game rooster mated to a Buff Chochin hen(you can see her in the pic) he is Di/di+ showing red coloring , but you can see black on his tail, wich is not good yet... so what do you need to do to eliminate this and keep the Red coloring? go back to the Buff line again. this will ensure a solid colored bird that is red. on the Back Cross to Buff you will get alot of buff birds(roosters and hens included) and a few Red colored ones(Di/di+ heterozygotes), keep using these Red colored roosters.

os know that you have a fully colored rooster(Red) you will need to use one of the best hens from any of this roosters, don't use buff hens from another line. once you crossed them you should be able to pick a di+/di+ hen. and di+/di+ roosters..

Ok.. I'm ready for questions..

FIRST PAGE OF THE GENETICS ON RED D'ANVERS ON PREVIOUS PAGE
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[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

well that's easy enough. Glad you showed all that. I have learned most of my genetics from Henk actually, but his pages on buff, being how unusual the colors is, never really worked to well. So thatnks for breaking that down.
In short, bred the buff and bb red, take the best looking red males back to the buff once again, then start selecting for proper color and go from there. Wont be bad at all. And the buff by products will be a welcomed addition. These need some new blood in them BADLY. I have a trio and only know of 1 other breeder in the country with just a small handful of buffs, and his line has gone barren due to age and inbreeding. So this method of getting reds will be great for both the addition of a new color and the helping of the exisiting buffs here.

I assume from what you said and the caluclator, the same method of breeding could be done with buff columbians to create a black tailed red columbian?

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

okay do have a question for you after a trip to the calculator



put in a
bbred male to a buff hen

got what you showed

this time I took the F1 pullet BACK to the bb red

it now shows buff, red, and lemon creams, in columbian and duckwing patterns

however when the sexes are reversed on the original color, it only shows buff columbian and bb red as the outcomes.

My main question is this, where does the"lemon" cream gene come in from? The buff some how I assume, but is that correct or is it another one of those buff mix ups on the calculator? Reason I ask, is like I mentioned a page or so back, I REALLY want to get the cream gene into the d'anvers, no one has any d'anvers in the US that express the cream gene.

So is this scenario accurate with d'anvers or is it an error in the calculations?

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
its not the same, as Buff Columbian Lack Mahogany which is need it for Black Tailed Red. you would have to introduce Mahogany from another line, which I believe your Black Breasted Red don't have.. Buff Columbian breeding genotype is less complex than the self buffs.

Buff Columbian is

eb/eb Co/Co based on Gold s+/s+ that's it...

BUT...

If you are wanting to have Black Tail Red(just how my boy looks) all you need is to breed F1 Roo(of Buff X BBR) with a F1 Hen, the hen will be heterozygous for Di/di+ and have some black on her tail, if you breed this together you will end up with some Black tail Buffs, Black tail Reds, an a few "Almost" self Buff birds...

Quote:
your assessment is Correct.. The "Lemon" Comes From the Buff, Why do buff don't look Lemon? you can Thank Mahogany for it(Red enhancer).

how did you end up with "Lemon"? because you "Isolated" Di(Dominant Dilute, Red color Diluter)..in the Calculator ofcourse

How do you go about Isolating Dominant Dilute from Buff? well that is a very daunting task, that I have been contemplating on doing it. only a few people have work with this gene, Brian Reeder being one of them.

basically you need to start with your F1 male(the red one) mate him back to WildType(BBR) Select for Wildtype chick Down(Chimpmunk )

your wildtype chick is "e+" the one on the second row on the left.

you need to focus on Hens at this stage, as Di/di+ roosters(with only one copy of Dominant Dilute) will now show any dilution, only females..
if you breed enough birds you should have Pure e+/e+ hens. you will need to hatch at least 16 chicks to obtain a single Di female.. so the more the better

e+/ewh hens willl look like below hen.
this he is from Dan Honour wildtype long tail hen x buff leghorn rooster

Ok say you hatch enough F1xBBR chicks a few hens will be pure for e+/e+ and a few of these few will be Di/di hens that will show Dilution, but how and where? its all in the neck hackle.. Silver hens show a white hackle, Gold Based hens(BBR Hens) show Gold Colored Hackle and Di/di+ hens should look in between of those.

Below birds are wildtype hens, the left one is silver, the right one is Gold and the bottom one is diluted by the cream gene, you should be able to get something similar

since you can't tell the Di/di+ boys apart from di+/di+ you will need to go back to the F1 roo to obtain Diluted Di/Di males..


a few more pics of Dan Honour hatches. (Champagne Blonde is another Gold Diluter but its existence has not being documented as much as Di, this is the only pics I have about it, if you are interested I can provide you with all the info I have about Champagne Blonde)

Cb is Champagne Blond..

 

[Backwoods Bntms]

Talked to Tom again today,he is going to set me up with a silver quail cockrel. After seeing the Silver Duckwing d'Anvers on Jeroen Muys site, I now have a new purpose in life.

jj

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
that's the spirit...

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Thanks Nicalandia,

all this info on how to work with the buffs to get what I need out of them is proving extremely helpful. I appreciate you taking the time to explain exactly how it works with them, and rest assured it will be all put to work next spring. I may ask to pick your brain a bit more when the time comes, just to make sure I am going in the correct direction with the projects with them.

So a simple back cross of siblings from the buff x bb red will yeild black tail reds, thats easy enough

And glad to see the buffs are infact the way to go with the lemons. Will follow the breeding regiment you laid out there and let you know how it goes.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Quote:
Yep he said he did good on them this year. I sent him a trio last year when he came to one of the Georgia shows. He'd been after me for a couple years for some. You'll love them, they are one of my favorites. Oh and the silver dw's, havent seen Jeroens, but am working on them as well

 

[Backwoods Bntms]

According to the calculator if I cross a silver quail cock with a quail hen I get silver quail right off. Is it really that eazy?
jj

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
I'll be more than happy to help you out. I'm segregating Di(Dilute) as we speak, we can help each other in our quest..


Quote:
Only on Hens.. the Roosters will be Golden(S/s+) and they will be incomplete Quail as they will be heterozygous for the melanizers that make a complete quail