d'anver lovers,discuss the breed and post some pics!

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Hi, I'm wondering if you guys can help me? I'm having such trouble with my little d'Anver flock this year.

I tried to introduce two new girls to my flock - a lavender and a birchen, they'd grown up next to my flock which are all this years birds anyway except the boy who is last years.
Straight away the boy decided he didn't like the two new girls and my blue girl from the flock also decided she hated the lavender girl.
After two weeks of no letting up in attacking them I decided to remove the problem birds, so I took out the boy, the blue aggressive hen, and a placid hen who at that time was the only one to have come into lay so I wanted her to stay with the boy.
The lavender hen settled in well and I sold the birchen as I decided that I didn't need to keep her.
Then I put the placid hen back in and all was fine, just the usual pecking order stuff.
Then I put the cockerel back in and immediately he went back to attacking the lavender hen.
Its been a week and she is completely pushed out the flock by him, as every time she joins the other girls, he attacks her and chases her off. The aggressive blue hen is still on her own.

The only thing I can think to do is to take out the boy and the lavender hen and put them together out of sight of the rest of the flock and force him to only have her as company until he accepts her. Then the blue hen can go back in the flock in the meantime.
I know it'll be stressful for the lavender, but surely if it works it'll be better than a life pushed out of the flock. Then if he finally accepts her as his hen, hopefully he'll protect her against the aggressive blue hen when they rejoin the flock.
What does everyone else think?
I'm tearing my hair out over here, I need her to be accepted as she carries quail and he is a silver quail boy so the pair of them could produce me a lavender quail.

well first off let me say, yes that's kinda screwed up there. I've never had male to female issues, ever.
I have had a boss hen do the pecking order thing on new hens being thrown in there pens but that's usually over in a few minutes.

The only issues I have run into is the new and multiple males in pens. Usually is it doesnt settle down in a few minutes ( they usually do) then I do just like you did. Take the established birds out of the pen and put the new birds in it. Leave them this way for a couple day. Now place the original birds back into the pen with the new birds.
Their little pea brains usually dont remember that this was their pen to start with, and think they are the new comers, so most fighting stops then and all is fine.

Since you have dont that, and it's still happening, I'm out of options other than to place them in there and just let them work it out. As long as it's not die hard kill fighting, they'll get tired of it after a while. Once they do, it's usually over

I'm not thinking he'll be too bad on a hen for long.. And just checking, but you are positive it's a pullet and not a cockerel right? Just checking cause it just is so far out of the norm.

Also, how long are you trying them together before you break them up? Leave them, dont watch, it's easier that way. Come back in a hour or two and see what's happening. I honestly havent ever had but 1- or 2 male on male fights last more than 20 - 30 minutes. Usually they are done and know who's what by then.

Worst case, you'll just have to put the silver and what ever hens you want with him in a totally different pen. Put the beat up hen in first, then add them 1 by 1 , and just 1 a day til you have them in and see what happens.

 

[Bantam Username]

Its most definately a hen, she's POL age now and her comb is just beginning to grow and go pink. The first time, I left them together two weeks before taking out the troublemakers, as it had got to the point that the lavender hen wouldn't leave the coop and was miserable.
Its been a week since I've put the cockerel back in, and he still chases her away every time she comes near the other hens. :/

 

[Backwoods Bntms]

I had a cockerel today that I put in the cockerel pen with some that were a few weeks younger. All he wanted to do was beat on whoever he could reach. I caught him and threw him in the pen with some older ones, he tried the same stuff. About 5 minutes later he was trying to get as much of himself as he could under the waterer. I put him back in the pen with the young ones and he was much more agreeable.

jj

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

I had a cockerel today that I put in the cockerel pen with some that were a few weeks younger. All he wanted to do was beat on whoever he could reach. I caught him and threw him in the pen with some older ones, he tried the same stuff. About 5 minutes later he was trying to get as much of himself as he could under the waterer. I put him back in the pen with the young ones and he was much more agreeable.

jj

haha,
yep that sounds about right, some times they just need to be put in their place.

Bantam,
sounds like you did everything I would have done too. Not sure much more what to tell you, except maybe try JJ's tacktic if you can. Toss him in with some other males and let him get his butt whipped a little and see if he calms down... Still just odd to hear he's doing it to a pullet, they usually defend them good luck with it

 

[Backwoods Bntms]

Aubrey, is a goldneck a mottled pyle or a mottled white tailed buff? Nevermind....it's got to be a mottled white tailed buff

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Aubrey, is a goldneck a mottled pyle or a mottled white tailed buff? Nevermind....it's got to be a mottled white tailed buff

all it is , is a dominate white mille fluer, all the same genetics as a mille just with DW added

Just like a red plye is just a dom white bb red

 

[Backwoods Bntms]

Took pictures today.

Blue silver and silver quail pullets


Columbian cockerel from BBB




Crele cockerel from BBB, I really like this one.



Not sure what to call this Ginger red? Buff Columbian? Mutt?
Face shot


Profile



Blue Quail pullets



And the reason the blue quail are all crowded togeather "The Boss"

 

[4hchickmama]

I have a question for the breeders out there. I know in some breeds, like silkies, breeders will often mix varieties rather than just have say, a straight blue pen, a straight splash pen, etc etc unless they are breeding for a specific color. But in other breeds, the breeders make sure to keep all of the varieties separate. In my observation, this seems to be more relevant in breeds that have patterned varieties (i.e. Columbian or laced) and not as much with solid colors. How does this work in the d'Anver breed? Do you keep your color varieties separate? Is there a genetic guide that can predict what you will get if you mix colors? What colors/patterns are dominant? Thanks for taking the time to explain it to the newbie!

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

good looking pics, JJ
I really like that crele ones too, that one finally got the wing markings on it, something I havent hatched out of mine that I've kept yet, glad to see it came out finally. Think I know why now. If I remember yours came from my project male back to the bb reds didnt it? Back when I was getting pyles for you?

If so, that will help, I mainly had been breeding project to project and not back to bb. I knew better, just had a lot of bb projects and not many birds to use. I know how to get them finished now though if that's the case.

The columbian looks great too, about the cleanest one yet looks like, congrats on him too.

and the ginger, or buff

I think is an F1 buff columbian. They are a bit darker red than they are supposed to be, mainly due to being half bb red I think. If so, he'll lighten up in the next generation.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

I have a question for the breeders out there. I know in some breeds, like silkies, breeders will often mix varieties rather than just have say, a straight blue pen, a straight splash pen, etc etc unless they are breeding for a specific color. But in other breeds, the breeders make sure to keep all of the varieties separate. In my observation, this seems to be more relevant in breeds that have patterned varieties (i.e. Columbian or laced) and not as much with solid colors. How does this work in the d'Anver breed? Do you keep your color varieties separate? Is there a genetic guide that can predict what you will get if you mix colors? What colors/patterns are dominant? Thanks for taking the time to explain it to the newbie!

The Chicken Calculator is a good tool to learn off of.

http://kippenjungle.nl/Overzicht.htm#kipcalculator

Just click the color for the male and the female, then click calculate crossing and it shows you exactly what will come from it. you can then cross a chick to a parent, chick to chick , ect and continue into 2cd , 3rd 4th generations, however far you want to go.

Pattern genes need to be breed to the same pattern obviously for the chicks to be the same.

Solid colors work a little different.
It can all get confussing in one post but I'll try to help as much as I can

here goes, silkies folks as well as any other breeder will often keep blue black and splash together, reason being, they breed true, you just get different ratios depending on the parents

They are all black based birds, the blues just have a gene that turned the black blue. One copy is all it takes, meaning only 1 parent has to be blue, 2 copies of blue is what makes the splash birds.

This all works the same with dun too, it just makes the brown ( not chocolate, that's different, it breeds more like lavender)

on the blues ( or duns) here's the breeding ratios

black to black = 100% black
black to blue = 50% each
black to splash = 100%
blue to blue = 50% blue 25% black 25% splash
blue to splash = 50 % each

same on dun, just sub dun for blue and khaki for splash.

This ratio will work on patterned birds with blue or dun in them too. Just remember blue and dun have just 1 copy, and splash and khaki have 2 copies of the gene. Each parent can only pass on 1 copy of any gene to the chicks, so it's just basic math if you look at it that way.

Now lavender and chocolate are recessive, chocolate recessive sex linked. In short, these are black based birds too, but they are masked with the recessive lavender or chocolate genes.

Any time you cross one of these to another color, you will get all blacks. These blacks will carry the "split" gene for the color though.
Split means they have it in them as 1 copy, but by being recessive it takes 2 copies for it to be visable. So you have to 1. either cross the chicks back to each other, or 2 cross the chicks back to a lav or cho bird to get new ones.

again works the same in patterns too.

White, you have 2 basic kinds, recessive white and dominate white. Dominate white will breed about like the blues above on a first cross, and replaces all black feathers with white, and dilutes red to an orange color, baically red pyles are bb reds, goldnecks are mille fluers, buff laced is gold laced, all just having dominate white in them.
Recessive white is a masking color. It really isnt the true color of the bird in a genetic sence. What it does is covers up all color. You will not have a patterned recesive white. Most are over black bases, but they can be over anything.

This is why silkie people often keep blacks and whites together, they are the same color, ones just covered by recessive white. So they can get more blacks off the whites, these blacks will now carry 1 copy of rec white and will later make then more whites.

On patterns, Lord there's a million of them, would be hard to cover them all.

Most all have to be bred to the smae to get the smae though, not many are dominate. One that comes to mind is Birchen, when bred to birchen, duckwing, ginger, or any of the basic wild patterns, they will always be birchens. Now these will be split to whatever pattern you bred it to and will later make more of that pattern too, but on the first cross, birchen is dominate .

certain combos will outright make new patterns too, like mille fleur to bb red, = buff columbian right on the spot.

most arent that easy though and take 2-6 years to get the new color finished.

Barring or cuckoo is somewhat dominate too, as long as the male you use is barred, all off spring will be barred, assumeing he is double factored.
There's an easy way to tell this. First double factored means both his parents were barred. hens will only carry 1 copy by the way
but if a male came from barred parents, he will be pale in color and have no solid feathers on him. If he is single factored, he will be dark colored and have a few solid colored feathers in him.

Now that that's said, a double fatcored male will make all barred chicks no matter what you breed him to. That crele JJ posted about is from one of my barred projects. It is nothing more than cuckoo to bb red.
as long as you are using a solid barred to a pettern, the end result is just a barred version of that pattern. You can do it with anything, just takes a couple years to finish the color part out.

anywa, it can go on and on. Try the calculator out, it will help if you want to start trying some crosses. Or feel free to ask if you have any specific questions about it all.