Day 22 - Nothing :(

[Maddison]

I don't have as much candling experience as some but I think number 2 is definitely dead. The others aren't looking real good either, number 1 might be in with a chance, it's hard for me to really say sorry. Give it another 2-3 days. If it doesn't work out that's okay, just try again. I've heard of people listening for a heartbeat in the egg using a stethoscope, thatll tell you if they are still alive or not straight away

some people grab an egg to there ear and slightly tap on the air cell, sometimes the chick taps back if its internally pipped, this is a good way to know if its alive and kicking during final stages. I've done this myself so can confirm.

 

[JaeG]

So while candling them last night I took some photographs and video. the photographs did not work out at all. The video kind of did. It would probably help to have a purpose made candling torch with the soft end to help stop light leaks.

Whjile the Video is a bit rough, somehow, the color is perfect. It actually matches real life. At least on the camera monitor and computer monitor here. The color could look very different depending who is watching.

It particular I'd like to know what people think about the first egg and how the should or back of neck is like pressing into the air cell, or the air cell apears to be shrink wrapping over the chicks neck/shoulder... maybe!

Also what I keep thinking is a blood stain. Is it? Or do things that look like blood stains/pools turn up all the time in Egg's?

Here is the Video

I'm sorry but those eggs look to have died in the late stages. When there's a gap between the embryo and the air cell where you can't see veins, or the veins look to be fading/blood pooling, and the embryo looks dark and lumpy and unmoving, like they do in your video, then they have died. Do try again - it's all a learning curve.

 

[Jayson_Black]

These are the only still shots that had anything worth posting in them:

They're not the best pics. It may take a bit of practice before i produce good pics of this kind.

 

[Jayson_Black]

Thanks for all of your replies. yeah 1 is there with a chance i think, but I really think itys shrink wrapped and I have not seen any movement since day 17. I also did a six hour timelapse that showed no movement either. We did not candle from 17 to 22. I've done the water candling, as well as tapped and listened... Nothng!

We'll go to the very end of day 26 and try an eggtopsy.

I wont put holes in the egg, till i can get a couple more people to tell that might be helpfull. I am indeed fearfull that, that one more devloped egg (the first one) may have already pipped. If so, it may have been as much as 3 days ago, but it has continued to grow, so it must be alive?!?!?! holy crap, maybe it needs help!

 

[Maddison]

Thanks for all of your replies. yeah 1 is there with a chance i think, but I really think itys shrink wrapped and I have not seen any movement since day 17. I also did a six hour timelapse that showed no movement either. We did not candle from 17 to 22. I've done the water candling, as well as tapped and listened... Nothng!

We'll go to the very end of day 26 and try an eggtopsy.

I wont put holes in the egg, till i can get a couple more people to tell that might be helpfull. I am indeed fearfull that, that one more devloped egg (the first one) may have already pipped. If so, it may have been as much as 3 days ago, but it has continued to grow, so it must be alive?!?!?! holy crap, maybe it needs help!

has the chick pipped on the inside or outside?

 

[Jayson_Black]

I cant say for sure that an internal pip has occurred.
An External Pip has Most certainly NOT occurred. wry smile.

This brings me to a question I have. Is it possible for the "Internal pip" to NOT always be visible, even in a white egg?

The reason I ask the above is that if the silhouettes I was seeing were, in fact, an internal pip then we have a problem, a big problem. I first observed what I thought to be a potential internal pip on Day 17 when we put them on lockdown (thinking it was day 18). That was 8 days ago. They went on lockdown 8 days ago!

Honestly, it will now be a miracle if a chick survives to hatch. If that is the case, we will most certainly name her miracle or perhaps "Lucky The Miracle"

I feel like I could see something that resembled an internal pip. But I couldn't be sure. One interesting thing though is that the silhouettes within the air cell changed, and continue to change. Even to this day. The faint silhouette I can see inside the Aircell changes each time I look at it. At one point I thought I could see two beaks as if the chicks beak were open. but it's my first time, so how would I know if I am just seeing illusions or an actual internal pip. Am I likely to see odd little things inside the Aircell that are NOT the chicks beak? Or is the chicks beak the only thing you will ever see inside the Aircell prior to hatching?

Last night when I candled again that silhouette had indeed changed, again. I drilled a 3mm hole into the air cell. I used a rotary tool bit, without the rotary tool. So rather than drilling it would grind. I figured this would be the best tool I had as I had used similar bits to drill holes through the glass where masonry drill bits had failed. (cracked glass). I am 110% the hole was a success in that I did not breach beyond the Air cell, its placement and size. the only fear is the air cell's exposure now to any potential humidity error.

I have removed the Hygrometers and placed them in a ziplock bag with a cap of salt and water.

I had to use pink Himalayan salt. Turns out we have no plain regular salt in the house. I hope it will still work. It shouldn't be a massive difference.

It's 10 Am on Day 25. I will quit tomorrow, and most likely perform an eggtopsy, at least on the most developed chick. I will create a dedicated thread in the appropriate section. I will post photos and video of that event.

I made some more video last night while doing a quick candle before bed. I still have to review it. I got my wife to operate the camera, instead of me doing both. Hopefully, it worked well enough to give those on the outside looking in a better perspective than the previous video.

One more thing. I am sorry that my posts are so long. I really struggle to keep it short and sweet. I have a major fear of being misunderstood. In fact, it borders on being a clinical phobia. Even now, I have a very strong urge to tell you all about it, for fear you may misunderstand me. This personality trait I have is often exacerbated in times of heightened stress, anxiety or frustration.

So again, really sorry for the long posts. I'll try to keep them paragraphed, punctuated and loosely spell checked to make them a little easier to read.

 

[JaeG]

You will see the chick's beak move if it has pipped internally and hear it tapping to make an external pip. If they haven't quite pipped through the membrane you will see the membrane flexing and moving:

Generally they are pretty confused about where all that light suddenly came from. This video shows an internally pipped chick:

 

[Jayson_Black]

Thanks, JaeG. I've watched those videos. There is prolly very few that I've not seen now I see no movement, hear no clicking and no cheeping. The only sign of life (if you would call it that) is the fact the chicks appear(or perhaps appeared) to still be growing. Or at least one of them. In one of them, the internal pip (if it is a pip) is NOt obvious. Visually it is not at all clear-cut. IF, and its a very big 'IF' that very, very faint silhouette I am seeing inside the Aircell is, in fact, the chicks beak then it is nowhere near the edges of the Aircell (where I expected it) but more toward the center, making it very difficult to identify as an internal pip. If this is a pip, we are in BIG trouble, I first observed this shadow 8 days ago. I did not recognise it as a pip. To me, it looked not enough like all the videos and pictures I had seen. But now I'm questioning almost everything

I think its over guys. Its quite sad. It's weird. We expected the worst at first. Intentionally. But as time went by, and the chicks looked so strong and healthy. The veins looked thicker and stronger than most videos I saw. This raised our hopes (without us noticing). We figured (wrongly) that if the chicks could make it to day 17/18 then we're prolly ok. Or at least the rest would be up to the chicks.

Anyway. Tomorrow night I will try to perform an eggtopsy on the most developed egg. Being careful to remember there's a remote possibility the chick is alive but stuck in Albumen that has become too thick?!?!?

 

[Jayson_Black]

The other video I mentioned earlier did not turnout too well. Too much light was leaking and blowing out the camera's ability to sense how dark the scene really was. YUou cant see much.

 

[Jayson_Black]

Hang on a minute. I just had an Idea. Audio Candling. I could tape a microphone to the side of the egg. Using my PC, I could make a recording that lasts for several days if I wanted to. I can then open the recording and view the waveform to skip to any sounds of interest. I can run various filters to filter out some background noise, as well as raise the volume of quite parts and dampen the loud ones (I've been into Audio/Video production for years). (lol, don't use the videos I've posted here as a reference). Just gotta find a suitable microphone, pref one with a nice low-frequency response. (low frequency's penetrate solid objects better than higher frequency sounds. This is why if you stand outside of a night club you can hear the bass, but not much else. The walls of the club filtered out all the high freq sounds, but the lower frequencies are able to mostly travel through the walls and make their way to your ears

I would imagine I could hear the chicks heartbeat. If not, perhaps wooshing, clicking/tapping, maybe cheeping. I'll go work on that now