Day 23 - Assistance Needed

[Tenrec]

Hi there. I hope this is the correct forum for such an issue - it is an emergency.

Today is day 23 on one of my eggs...I candled it, tapped it, it was unresponsive. I thought it may be dead, so started a careful eggtopsy. The chick did not respond to my touch. When I almost finished chipping the air cell away, the chick finally DID respond...Slightly.

It's as if it's trying to peep back, but I hear no peep. There's not the strong pulsation that I see with assist hatches once the air cell is removed. There is no internal pip, nor is the beak even visible. Unfortunately, the vessels are still very much present.

I have what's left of the shell on the chick, and everything's wrapped in a moistened paper towel. I have applied bacitracin ointment thinly. What else can I do? The poor thing is probably malpositioned, and so weak-seeming. Please help. Thank you.

 

[Erka97]

Chip away until you find the beak. I had one like that and I had to remove most of her shell before she was able to breathe and chirp for me. She lost a little blood and ended up being very weak for the first few days, but she's okay now.

Do the blood vessels look very dark red, or more of a bright red? They're supposed to be the brighter color, dark means low oxygen.

 

[Tenrec]

Chip away until you find the beak. I had one like that and I had to remove most of her shell before she was able to breathe and chirp for me. She lost a little blood and ended up being very weak for the first few days, but she's okay now.

Do the blood vessels look very dark red, or more of a bright red? They're supposed to be the brighter color, dark means low oxygen.

Hey, thanks for the advice.

The vessels were bright. When I went to go start chipping, I saw the blood had left them...Which wasn't good. The bird passed before I even got in there.

Opened the egg up, malpositioned as expected. Head between legs and quite a ways from the air cell.

I don't think this little guy was viable. He's a silkie, which often have vaulted skulls, but I don't think I've ever seen one like this.


Graphic pictures to follow:









The abdomen was also a bit herniated. He must have been straining pretty hard. : (

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Hey, thanks for the advice. The vessels were bright. When I went to go start chipping, I saw the blood had left them...Which wasn't good. The bird passed before I even got in there. Opened the egg up, malpositioned as expected. Head between legs and quite a ways from the air cell. I don't think this little guy was viable. He's a silkie, which often have vaulted skulls, but I don't think I've ever seen one like this. Graphic pictures to follow: The abdomen was also a bit herniated. He must have been straining pretty hard. : (

Nice vault. Sorry he didn't make it. I've had a couple I've had to help at the zipping stage because the vault was a good size and hindering their ability to turn or get the head up. Head between legs like that, and with that size vault, he was pretty much at a loss to overcome the malpositioned he was in.

 

[Tenrec]

..And I'm pretty sure I just lost his sibling to the same thing. Same position. Same big ol' vault. Yolk was absorbed into abdomen, but vessels weren't. Little guy started kicking while I was trying to find his head/beak and bled considerably.

What can I do different next time? I feel awful, and I do not want this to happen again.

He has two more siblings. One of them already made it out of the egg yesterday, but also had difficulty. The other one has pipped by itself and is still strong, so I'm leaving it alone. Everyone else is coming out like popcorn.

Thanks for the kind words.

 

[Erka97]

Generally making sure the wider side of the egg is higher than the smaller end, and there isn't much else to do. Malpositioning is just something that happens, I watch for it to help the ones that get stuck out.

Did your bleeder die or is it just weak?
Mine looked pretty dead for an entire day -she just laid there, eyes closed, breathing and doing nothing else, my mother thought she was dead- but after a few more days she was a lot better. If you have bleeding in the future, it's good to hold pressure on it with a bit of paper towel to stop the bleeding; in this way I've yet to lose any chicks to blood loss.

 

[Tenrec]

I think I'll honestly give it a go tilting my wide ends up on ALL my eggs next time. I've seen too many malpositions this hatch.

My bleeder died, unfortunately. I put some considerable pressure on the wound, but either that wasn't enough, or she ended up drowning during the assist. I've heard of people repositioning and pulling the head out on chicks that haven't pipped internally, but how do you do that quickly and carefully enough when there are such fat vessels in the way?

Thanks for the help.

The other little sibling is alive and kicking now, though, in the brooder with the first little guy. A cute little buff silkie.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

I think I'll honestly give it a go tilting my wide ends up on ALL my eggs next time.  I've seen too many malpositions this hatch. 

My bleeder died, unfortunately.  I put some considerable pressure on the wound, but either that wasn't enough, or she ended up drowning during the assist. I've heard of people repositioning and pulling the head out on chicks that haven't pipped internally, but how do you do that quickly and carefully enough when there are such fat vessels in the way?

Thanks for the help.

The other little sibling is alive and kicking now, though, in the brooder with the first little guy.  A cute little buff silkie.

What do you mean tilting my wide ends up on all eggs?

 

[Tenrec]

By that, I mean instead of laying them completely horizontal, perhaps an egg tray, as in the mechanical turners, would be best. These are shipped eggs, by the way...So I actually did have a few sitting vertical for the first 10 days, due to their air sacs being damaged.

I stopped turning on day 17. Maybe I shouldn't stop until day 18 next time?

I've just never had this many malpositions before, but that was me raising chickens over 10 years ago. I see you're the OP of the hands-on hatching thread...What do you for this? Thanks for helping me out here, I really appreciate it.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

By that, I mean instead of laying them completely horizontal, perhaps an egg tray, as in the mechanical turners, would be best.  These are shipped eggs, by the way...So I actually did have a few sitting vertical for the first 10 days, due to their air sacs being damaged.

I stopped turning on day 17.  Maybe I shouldn't stop until day 18 next time?

I've just never had this many malpositions before, but that was me raising chickens over 10 years ago.  I see you're the OP of the hands-on hatching thread...What do you for this?  Thanks for helping me out here, I really appreciate it.

I would not leave the turners in. They increase the risk of leg injury for newly hatched chicks. However, if you want to hatch upright many do hatch in cut down cartons. Especially with shipped that have had air cell damage.

I personally stop turning the end of day 13. The Cobb development chart states that the chicks turn to the big end about day 14 so I let them rest at that point. It's not necessary to turn chicken eggs after the second week. I don't have issues with malpositioned chicks either. I can't say for a fact that's why, but logic tells me less interference while they are turning the better.

I was pm'd by a young man that was having multiple malpos in his hatches. I explained how I stopped turning early and offered it up as something to try. Which he did and reported after his next hatch that his # of malpos had dropped significantly. The only thing he did different was stopped turning for day 14. I'm not saying it couldn't be coincidence, but it doesn't hurt to try it.

About day 17 they position themselves for hatch. Head under wing beak up. It's been the practice to stop turning to coincide with "lockdown" and highering humidity forever, but I think it makes more sense to stop prior to the two periods where they are positioning. I believe a mother hen sitting on eggs can most likely feel the movement and has natural instinct to sit tight when there's movement. It's just my personal philosophy. Feel free to join us on the hands on thread anytime. We have some awesome regulars who love helping and chatting.