Deadly chicken behavior

[justplainbatty]

There is lots of activity outside today and she follows us everywhere. The others were outside for a bit and Cadury put the run on Buffy. This time she flew up high away from her attacker. She was quite nervous after that and her poo is pretty runny today which is a switch from the last week or so. My husband was in with the 6 week old chicks and decided to let Buffy inside with them. It was funny to watch the little ones investigate and Buffy show a little bossiness. It was only for a couple of minutes but maybe it will help her ego. At this point we felt it couldn't hurt. We are supposed to get a storm and some rain in the next day or two so not sure where Buffy will be. Cooped up in the dog crate all day is not an option and the garage unattended worries me. That big question... Is she sick or not??

The poop indicates something, is it warm by you where she might be drinking extra? When was her last De worming? Is her crop full at night and empty in the morning?
Sorry if I asked any of these before... I think it's nice for her to maybe get an ego boost or feel a little motherly to the young ones provided she is not giving them an illness.
Have you consulted the poop chart? Can you post a/another poop pic?
I thought I book marked the poop chart, not finding it. Just type poop chart into the search bar for BYC
TTYS

Ok I got it http://www.chat.allotment.org.uk/index.php?topic=17568.0

 

[amortonchick]

I have so much to report. I still keep Buffy in the dog crate at night. There is no question that Cadbury will still go after her if given the chance. A couple days ago I had Buffy in an outdoor run alone and added Cora in with her. The interaction was so sweet as they looked like long lost sisters. Cora spent lots of time preening around Buffy's head and neck of all those little white (what looks like quill) pieces. Buffy allowed her to do this with much willingness as she lowered her head and closed her eyes at times. Buffy currently lives in the daytime with the two ducks in their run, at night it's back to the garage into the dog crate with an attached nest box that she finds comfort in at night and periodically during the day.

About a week ago I noticed some strange things going on with our other RIR eggs. A very odd shaped egg was produced, another was soft and squishy with just the outer membrane, no shell at all. One other morning I found a wet, broken unformed egg beneath the roost. As of today Andi is lethargic, fluffed feathers, swollen abdomen and she cannot keep her eyes open. She has spent most of the day in a nest box and can barely hold up her head. I have had an egg bound chicken before and this seems much more extreme like it could be Egg Yolk Peritonitis. Yesterday she laid what looked to be scrambled egg.

I am wondering if Buffy had the early signs of EYP and was able to overcome it. I have read that EYP may have something to do with E Coli and it best to have a fecal sample sent to a lab. The hens have been recently de-wormed (fed DE). I have been adding an antibiotic to the water since Buffy seemed ill. I referred to the poo chart and for the most part Buffy's poop is normal but from time to time she expels a loose/egg-like matter and it more often happens when we are holding her. I've read that EYP is not contagious however E Coli definitely is. Pictured is from yesterday when Andi laid the "scrambled" egg looking stuff.


This is Andi lethargic and fluffed. She can barely keep her eyes open.

 

[justplainbatty]

I'm sorry to hear this new bad news but glad Buffy is doing better and has a caring friend.
Now, down to business. I hate to tell you this but DE is useless, truly! I beg you to use Valbazen or Safeguard Equine paste, Please, please!!
Here is one of dozens of articles on EYP. Also consider Fowl Typhoid. http://www.beautyofbirds.com/eggyolkperitonitis.html
I'm gonna re read this whole thread......

 

[amortonchick]

We lost Andi early this evening.

It had to have been EYP. I would say she only showed signs of distress for not more than 2 days. I have heard from so many the benefits of DE, interesting. Looks like I have some reading to do tonight.

 

[justplainbatty]

We lost Andi early this evening.

It had to have been EYP. I would say she only showed signs of distress for not more than 2 days. I have heard from so many the benefits of DE, interesting. Looks like I have some reading to do tonight.

Ok, If you gave antibiotics in the beginning, (if I remember right) it may have saved Buffy from E. Coli but, the EYP may continue. If the other hens now seem to have EYP and are dying, it is probably from E. coli that was spread and caused the EYP. Does that make sense? One causes the other, which causes again, the first problem...headspin...ugh! I'm sorry you lost Andi.

The data about the uselessness of DE is just starting to come out, it will be hard to find through the sea of lies and natural, organic, fad loving folks touting this stuff. DE is naturally occurring in plants, clay and many everyday sources. Every animal and person has enough DE for proper bone growth and any extra is excreted without any additional benefit whatsoever. Yes, DE can be bad news for bugs if you use it in high amounts all the time. The down side is the skin and eye irritation, irritation of the bowels and respiratory disease. Diatoms are microscopic, sharp little things you can liken to shards of glass. Imagine that in the respiratory or digestive tract of a bird! Even though there is only about 1% of the really bad silica in food grade DE, it is enough to ruin a chicken' lungs and airsacs over time. The measurement of a diamond's hardness is 9 and diatoms are 7. If DE can cut a hard shelled bug to ribbons, what will it do to people and animals?
Anyway... maybe another round of antibiotics is in order

A lab test of poop is good too. Can you send Andi for a necropsy? Her case may answer most of your questions and point you in the way you should go. It might save you many future heart breaks with all the birds you are raising up now.

I hope everyone else is ok.

 

[blondiebee181]

You feed extra oyster shell to your layers right? I know that's a dumb question, but let's cover it all...sorry to hear of your loss...my Leghorn was struggling with internal laying at one point...it's a very tricky thing to cure...I ended up taking her to the vet, throwing a round of antibiotics at it and she recovered, but it's definitely a hard to diagnose/hard to cure affliction. I only use DE in their nest boxes to keep the buggies down, not as an ingestive. There's a really great product out now called Strike III I believe. It's a wormer feed that you mix with regular feed, and you don't have to toss eggs. We are going to carry it at the feed store soon and I can't wait to try it.

 

[amortonchick]

I would like to purchase a good chicken keeping book. Do you have a favorite or a suggestion? For two years now I have looked at them but just can't decide. Maybe all I need is BackyardChickens.com

 

[amortonchick]

You feed extra oyster shell to your layers right? I know that's a dumb question, but let's cover it all...sorry to hear of your loss...my Leghorn was struggling with internal laying at one point...it's a very tricky thing to cure...I ended up taking her to the vet, throwing a round of antibiotics at it and she recovered, but it's definitely a hard to diagnose/hard to cure affliction. I only use DE in their nest boxes to keep the buggies down, not as an ingestive. There's a really great product out now called Strike III I believe. It's a wormer feed that you mix with regular feed, and you don't have to toss eggs. We are going to carry it at the feed store soon and I can't wait to try it.

Yes, I add oyster shell to their feed and I also provide them with crushed egg shells but only free choice (not added to the food). I only started giving them oyster shell this year as I thought the egg shell and the amount of free range that my girls do would be enough. An exact diagnosis to why we lost Andi is probably out of reach but from all I've read about it sounds most like EYP. I never knew chickens could have so many different problems, sour crop, impacted crop and internal laying is not one I've heard of. Is there another name for this? I have added Strike III to my list of "look into" items for worming.

 

[amortonchick]

I'm sorry to hear this new bad news but glad Buffy is doing better and has a caring friend.
Now, down to business. I hate to tell you this but DE is useless, truly! I beg you to use Valbazen or Safeguard Equine paste, Please, please!!
Here is one of dozens of articles on EYP. Also consider Fowl Typhoid. http://www.beautyofbirds.com/eggyolkperitonitis.html
I'm gonna re read this whole thread......

I came across this article earlier today actually. I forgot to mention a positive thing occurred today aside from our sad event. Cadbury who stopped laying eggs early March is back at it. It took her a few days in the nest box but today there was a beautiful green egg, her first in a couple of months. Back to the not fun stuff...should I be focusing my attention on E Coli simply by adding antibiotics to their water? After Andi died earlier I gave the water and feeder a good a good scrub down as I am aware that E Coli can be transmitted that way. I also removed all the pine shavings from the coop/nesting boxes and replaced it with new.

 

[amortonchick]

Ok, If you gave antibiotics in the beginning, (if I remember right) it may have saved Buffy from E. Coli but, the EYP may continue. If the other hens now seem to have EYP and are dying, it is probably from E. coli that was spread and caused the EYP. Does that make sense? One causes the other, which causes again, the first problem...headspin...ugh! I'm sorry you lost Andi.

The data about the uselessness of DE is just starting to come out, it will be hard to find through the sea of lies and natural, organic, fad loving folks touting this stuff. DE is naturally occurring in plants, clay and many everyday sources. Every animal and person has enough DE for proper bone growth and any extra is excreted without any additional benefit whatsoever. Yes, DE can be bad news for bugs if you use it in high amounts all the time. The down side is the skin and eye irritation, irritation of the bowels and respiratory disease. Diatoms are microscopic, sharp little things you can liken to shards of glass. Imagine that in the respiratory or digestive tract of a bird! Even though there is only about 1% of the really bad silica in food grade DE, it is enough to ruin a chicken' lungs and airsacs over time. The measurement of a diamond's hardness is 9 and diatoms are 7. If DE can cut a hard shelled bug to ribbons, what will it do to people and animals?
Anyway... maybe another round of antibiotics is in order

A lab test of poop is good too. Can you send Andi for a necropsy? Her case may answer most of your questions and point you in the way you should go. It might save you many future heart breaks with all the birds you are raising up now.

I hope everyone else is ok.

What you are saying about DE makes perfect sense. If I need to wear a mask when dealing with it how can it be safe for them, but the guy at the feed store assured us it is not harmful. He explained to us what it does to bugs having to do with cutting through the hard shells of lice, etc. I hope I didn't cause an upset with Andi's digestive tract by giving her the DE. I mixed another gallon of antibiotics tonight.