Debate on food, free range and egg quality...

[NatJ]

Nope I didn't say that either.

Yes, you did. Here it is:

If a chicken is deficient in protein for example it doesn't mean they don't get any. It can equally mean they don't get enough to achieve their full growth potential for example.

And here is where I referred to it:

Now you are saying they can show signs of deficiency (like not achieving full growth potential). Yes, I agree that is deficient.

So yes, you did say it.

 

[Perris]

You suggested I had confused mealworms for earthworms, in response to a post I made about earthworms, linking another post I made ... about earthworms... in another thread.

but you were shooting me down for a post I made about mealworms. I wasn't talking about earthworms.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

You suggested I had confused mealworms for earthworms, in response to a post I made about earthworms, linking another post I made ... about earthworms... in another thread.

aaah now I see it. You had mentioned mealworms.

MY ERROR.

Relavence: earthworms and mealworms are nutritionally quite similar for purposes of chicken diets. Not 1:1 interchangeable, but close enough that they have similar pros and cons

Links to follow when rain stops and internet returns.

 

[Perris]

aaah now I see it. You had mentioned mealworms.

MY ERROR.

Relavence: earthworms and mealworms are nutritionally quite similar for purposes of chicken diets. Not 1:1 interchangeable, but close enough that they have similar pros and cons

Links to follow when rain stops and internet returns.

with respect, I don't think they are similar at all.

 

[3KillerBs]

but you do if you're buying commercial feed! That grain and soy could be feeding people.

No, it's grown specifically for animal feed.

And I buy it cheap-per-pound at the feed store not $$-per-lb at the grocery store.

 

[NatJ]

but you do if you're buying commercial feed! That grain and soy could be feeding people.

Sometimes it could be, but sometimes the animal food is made from ingredients that are considered too poor in quality to be used for human consumption.

That is part of why food meant for chickens tends to be cheaper than food meant for people.

 

[3KillerBs]

Sometimes it could be, but sometimes the animal food is made from ingredients that are considered too poor in quality to be used for human consumption.

My DH knows a farmer who grows specifically for the animal feed market. I've only met him once and don't know if there are extra hoops to jump for crops intended for human consumption or not.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I grow black soldier fly maggots under the feet of artificially incubated chicks in an off-the-ground brooder. Every few weeks I add inches of leaf litter to the brooder and once in a while I wet the substrate. About 4-6 inches down under the chicks is a writhing layer of maggots and compost that’s hot to the touch. Once a day I grab a handful of the maggots and mush out and let the chicks eat their fill.

I still offer the chicks commercial crumbles but the daily maggots have greatly reduced their feed intake. I am not fretting over the maggots’ fat content. These chicks are oriental gamefowl crosses and are fathered by my mouse-eating rooster so I figure the high animal component of their diet is a plus. They’re growing huge.

In a separate post, I'm going to hit you up on your system for this. I-ve tried barrel composting for bsfl - failed. And the dead carcass maggot drop from a goat I took (would you believe it dessicated? Even the skull produced few maggots), and as I've already posted, my soil doesn't do earthworms.

Would be nice to have a small stable insect protein source for when the crickets and grasshoppers aren't abundant. Our climates should be relatively close.

 

[Perris]

Poultry for the Farm and Home, was written in 1921 with the goal of teaching farmers how to get a then-profitable 100 eggs per hen per year -- from LEGHORNS.

that's a bit of a misrepresentation. The goal is at least 100 eggs per year (p.6), and the chief point of the pamphlet was that the average flock yield was depressed by a lot of poor performers (page 39 ff). That apart, on page 25 it states that "almost any hen, backed by decent breeding and intelligent management, can lay 144 eggs a year."

 

[U_Stormcrow]

since you fail to provide any links to such, let me for those who want to pursue it: this is a review of several
https://doi.org/10.1007/s11250-019-02033-7

Better source:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003257911930906X
(that's the meal, with moisture content reduced from about 60% to just 4%). At those levels, dry matter about 95%, crude protein about 52% (as fed), neutral plus acid detergent fiber around 21% (as fed), and fat around 28% (as fed).

Fresh Mealworms (per feedipedia) are here. We are using that source for the complete A A profile (keep in mind, these are averages with a very small sample size, some variation to be expected)

The four key are:
Met 1.5% of protein (range of 1.3 - 2.0)
Lys 5.4 % of protein (range of 4.6 - 6.1)
Thre 4.0 % of (3.5-4.4)
Tryp 0.6% of (0.0-0.9)

Sadly, we are suffering some imperfect sources, and I'm not sure how long the break in the rain will last. So I don't have time to search better, but I hope you can follow along.

Now, once again from feedipedia, here are earthworms. (meal, that is, dried) Again, averages. 90% dry matter, 57% protein as % dry matter, 9% fat as % dry matter, NDF + ADF 19.4% as % of dry matter. Dry matter was 90%, so "as fed" (the numbers used in the study above) the dried Earthowrms are around 51% protein, 8% fat, 17% fiber - apart from the much lower fat numbers, that's pretty comparable.

As to the protein itself, lets look at its AA makeup. Same four
Met 1.8% (1.5-2.7 range)
Lys 7.0% (5.4-8.5 range)
Thre 4.1% (2.3-5.5 range)
Tryp 1.0% (0.6-1.3 range)

The variation in the tested earthworm samples is greater (except in Tryp), and we are suffering from small sample sizes in every case with just a handful of data sets averaged together from various studies), but I would judge those similar, with a nod to earthworms as the superior source (if Met, Lys, or lower associated total fat are your measures).

and because the rain is holding off, here's dried BSFL (since they've been mentioned), again feedipedia (and again, averages, small sample sizes) for those interested. I'll do the math for "as fed".

Approx 38% protein, 24% fat (they only listed crude fiber, not ADF and NDF, so no direct comparisons). AAs as percent of total protein:
Met 2.1% (1.7-2.4)
Lys 6.6% (6.0-8.0)
Thre 3.7% (1.3-4.8) Huge variation!
Tryp 0.5% (only one sample)

Of the three, the BSFL due to its significantly average lower protein and high fat, together with a not markedly superior AA ratio, would be my third choice in a perfect world. Earthworms my preference, as the lowest fat source of the three. As already established, its not a perfect world, earthworms don't work for me, but from a protein perspective, and a fiber perspective, I'd certainly view them as comparable to mealworms. Certainly more comparable than between certain grains or various seeds.

YMMV