Decrowing Roosters.

[Pele]

I would love to believe this, but vets in my area vary substantially in terms of whether they perform convenience/cosmetic surgeries and convenience euthanasias. If one vet refuses to put down your cat because you're moving away or just plain tired of orange cats and want a gray one, you need only drive down the road where another will do it.

Exactly this. Not to mention some vets that will do unecessary proceedures to get money. I had a vet once that recommended a proceedure, assured me that I could set up a payment plan to affort it (to the tune of 2 thousand dollars), then held my cats hostage until I paid all of it. Up front.

Vets are people, and as people, are different from person to person in their ethics.

 

[FireTigeris]

Exactly this. Not to mention some vets that will do unecessary proceedures to get money. I had a vet once that recommended a proceedure, assured me that I could set up a payment plan to affort it (to the tune of 2 thousand dollars), then held my cats hostage until I paid all of it. Up front.

Vets are people, and as people, are different from person to person in their ethics.

True but we are talking about someone that's a member here, who came to find out our opinions and has been answering out points and counter points for awhile now.

There is no reason to bother with that if it's just for convenience, I know two vets that wont euthanize anything ever... (the kitten that was struck by a car and paralyzed comes to mind)

Yes there are problem people both ways, too much attention and to little (oh and 'stealing' an animal -property- is a call to the local police) greedy people and vets that close because they were giving away their services.

 

[janinepeters]

True but we are talking about someone that's a member here

Oh, no, I don't think we are talking about this vet in particular who has been conversing with us. It's just that the topic of decrowing and shipping roosters has stimulated some general discussion about how we treat animals, what we do to them, to what extent they are "property", the pros and cons of certain procedures, and whether they should be legal. We've definitely strayed from the OP's initial question, but at least the discussion hasn't degenerated into a nasty argument. That's impressive, given the controversial nature of the topic! I am finding it very interesting and I hope the OP isn't frustrated that we have digressed so far from the specific to the general....

 

[Quyen Le]

Do you cut the rooster's neck open for that procedure or just burn inside the rooster's throat?

 

[Quyen Le]

I heard that there is a guy who uses the small wood stick then burn 1 end and while it's still red hot, he burns something inside the rooster's throat and make the crow much quieter.

 

[Sphinx]

I'm sure he actually either cuts the neck or uses specialized tools to go down the throat. Sticking a burning stick down a rooster's throat seems a bit crude, and a much higher risk of injury/death.


While I personally wouldn't pay $250 (or really, much over $50), for the service, I think it's a great idea. I think there's a lot of people who would. I do think you'd be better off moving back east a bit, where you'd be more easily accessible to all the rich folks.

 

[sundancenbare]

I think that it would be a great service if could be done by a liscensed vet. In urban areas with the no rooster rule we would consider it a priviledge to have one. I have a rooster that I would love to keep. He is sweet and beautiful, I don't care if he gets a bit agressive as I have no children at home, I would love for him to be in my breeding program. My friend who is a vet is looking into surgically altering roosters so they could be pets in Urban areas. I hope she is successful

 

[bluedogsonly]

Hello all. Seems to be some activity still on this subject. Sorry I haven't been able to respond, been in AZ running around the mountains. Some interesting points have cropped up recently.

First off, thanks for the feedback.

Anyway, the procedure is done under general anesthesia. I have built some very specialized tools and I have to go into the chest to access the trachea (working through a very small hole) and modify the way the air goes through the syrinx. This is called a syringotomy. The syrinx works like an aired-up balloon that you stretch the neck on to get it to squeek. This does not stop all sounds, but very much lessens the volume of the crow (thats been my experience anyway), They still cackle and crow, just quieter.

There seems to be alot of speculation about the way this procedure modifies the roosters behaviour. The people making these statements are entitled to their opinions, but I'm pretty sure they have not seen these birds after the procedure. I'm telling you my experiences based on observations, nothing more nothing less. I have several birds on my place post surgery. Doing great by the way. My gal raised a few dozen chicks this past spring from her decrowed OE silver duckwing bantam. Also there are pipped eggs from her decrowed Splash Japanese right now in the incubator. There really seems to be no loss of interaction with the hens, or other roos for that matter. I use the word "seems" often because I obviously can not know what goes on in any living thing's mind except my own. Again, only observations. But I would really like to hear from people who have experience with others doing this procedure.

The cost issue is also coming up alot. I think I'm probably going to settle on $150 per bird, and hopefully get some people into trying this. If its too cheap, it'll be abused or not taken seriously. This is a serious but elective procedure, that may in fact save the birds life. Most likely this is for pet, backyard flocks.

Shipping birds is also being questioned here. I just shipped my first bird to New Jersey. He's done well, has a flock of girlfriends now and is probably enjoying life better than at my place. The issue I had was that I paid the USPS for express overnight and it took 2 days to get there. No harm to the bird, but I am going to get a refund. Anyway, I would not sew up the bird and throw him in a shipper, he'd have to stay for a few days of recovery and I'd say a week total turn around time to be sure that he was shipped early in the week and no complications arise. This is something that would be handled on an individual basis of course. Legal issues with shipping poultry are often ignored, most states require negative pullorum or NPIP certified flock and a health paper from your vet. I take this seriously because I think that sick poultry being swapped around could have horrible results in our commercial flocks.

I have the idea or providing decrowed OE bantam, serama etc... (very small birds) as house pets. I figure that there are some people who would like the experience of chickens but very limited space. I dont think it would be much different than parrots or budgies. Just a thought and would like to know if anybody's interested in the novelty.

I tried this on a guinea, did not work, but she's doing fine. I was told this works on pea fowl, supposedly same anatomy.

Anyway, gotta go look at a downed cow. Thanks all.

Dr. James

 

[FireTigeris]

Good luck with the cow, when you get a chance can you direct me to a video before and after?

It be great for comparison -

I'd like to know what sounds they make before and after, and the actual amount of sound reduction (average) in decibels.

I also have been watching my flock very closely, there is chicken sign besides the vocalizations, a normally behaving rooster has actions coupled with his voice, and abnormal rooster frustrates hens because he does not preform the actions in conjunction with the vocalizations.

That is a rooster that 'food calls' then mounts/chase mounts/ scuffle mounts (etc)' is causing aggravation to hens, a rooster that 'dance cackles and dances, waits to mount' reduces stress in a flock (in general).

The fox(es) that took half my flock, ran under my house where the three roosters couldn't have advantage, they communicates silently in the weeks before the attack, they all ceased to crow, they still did the motions but with little sound- had I understood that meant 'resident ground predator' I could have saved many birds.

 

[bluedogsonly]

I am intending on recording a few of the birds that I have done. I have one "before" already of a blue splash Jap of my gals, just need the "after". Hes at about 15% voice by my guess now. Does anybody know how I can edit the 2 videos into 1 so it can be posted just once? Also, yesterday I surgerized 2 young, pre-crowing standard roosters. These are the youngest birds I have done and am interested to see what they sound like when they grow up. Again no complications with the procedure. Recovered great, eating drinking, and one even flogged me. Acting just fine, but much quiter with the cackling. Thanks heaps.

Dr. James

P.S. the cow was dead when I got there. For those interested.